Kashi: Building a Consistent Yoga Practice That Lasts

In this episode, I sit down with Kashi, a longtime yoga practitioner and former monk, to explore the deeper layers of yoga philosophy and what it really means to live the practice. From his early days in Israel to years spent studying in India, Kashi shares a powerful journey shaped by discipline, self-inquiry, and a commitment to understanding the roots of yoga.

We dive into how yoga extends far beyond the physical, touching on themes of community, personal transformation, and the role of philosophy in navigating modern life. A central part of our conversation explores trauma-sensitive yoga and how supportive environments can help people reconnect, heal, and feel seen through shared experience.

Kashi also reflects on his transition from monastic life to becoming a householder, offering an honest perspective on change, identity, and staying true to your path even when it challenges expectations. We discuss the relevance of classic yoga texts like the Bhagavad Gita and how their teachings can still guide us through uncertainty, growth, and everyday life.

This episode is for anyone seeking a deeper connection to their practice, a better understanding of yoga philosophy, or a grounded perspective on how to stay consistent and authentic on the path.

What You’ll Learn:
• Why community plays a key role in healing and growth
• How yoga supports trauma awareness and emotional resilience
• The importance of discipline and long-term practice
• How yoga philosophy applies to modern life
• What it means to evolve while staying true to yourself

Listen if you’re interested in: yoga philosophy, trauma-sensitive yoga, meditation, personal growth, and building a sustainable yoga practice.

Listen to Kashi's lecture on BG here

Check out Kashi's retreat here

Listen & subscribe for more conversations on yoga, healing, and personal growth.

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About the Podcast:
The Native Yoga Toddcast explores yoga, meditation, mindfulness, and personal growth through conversations with teachers, creators, and thought leaders.

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Transcript

Todd McLaughlin: 0:33

Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast, so happy you are here. My goal with this channel is to bring inspirational speakers to the mic in the field of yoga, massage, body work and beyond. Follow us at @nativeyoga and check us out at nativeyogacenter.com. All right, let's begin. Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast. My name is Todd McLaughlin. My special guest today, Kashi. Visit Kashi. You can find him on Instagram. His handle at@Kashi_Mukta and you may have listened to a couple episodes back where I interviewed his partner, Kyung Pak, who was absolutely lovely and so full of energy and good vibes. And now you get to meet Kashi, her partner, and equally incredible, amazing, wonderful vibes. What a power couple, what a pleasure. And Kashi joins me from Israel. He's about ready to take flight to India. He has been a Brahmacharya and Swami, and now is a householder. He shares his journey into yoga, his training that he underwent while living in India for decades, and now his path and journey, following his heart and his intuition, staying true to what he needs, feels and believes in. And wow, what an incredible conversation. I hope you enjoy this as much as I did, and thank you so much for your support. If you're a longtime listener, so happy to have you back. And if it's your first time joining in, we're so happy to have you here. All right, remember too you can listen to kashi's podcast Bhagavad Gita with Kashi. Kashi reads and kin chants in Sanskrit has a very in depth understanding of the Sanskrit language and the Bhagavad Gita and yoga philosophy. Go Travel with Kyong Kashi and also our dear friends Andrew and Pam in Peru, November 22 through the 30th of 2026 and you can see the links in the description to follow them and and see what they're up to. All right, let's go ahead and begin. I am so happy to be here with Kashi today. Kashi, thank you so much for joining me. I'm been looking forward to this opportunity to meet and speak with you. How are you feeling and how's your day been so far?

Kashi: 3:24

Hi Todd, Hi everyone. I'm super happy to be here. I'm very excited to talk to you today, and I feel very, very well I'm this moment. I'm in Israel, visiting my family and friends. I also do some teachings here in Israel, which we will probably talk about later. And after tomorrow, I fly to India, which is another exciting part of my schedule. And yeah, I'm good, amazing.

Todd McLaughlin: 3:58

How has your visit in Israel been? Can you talk a little bit about what you're picking up on and what the general feeling and vibe is?

Unknown: 4:08

Well, there is a lot to say. I came here with my partner, Kian. She came first time. We kind of new couple, and this is the first time she's coming to visit Israel, and she has been here for a little bit more than two weeks, and it has been a magic for her and for me too, and that was very wonderful. And after that, I'm here like I do every year, I come for about a month, I visit many friends, family going here, and they are very busy, but very good. Generally, in Israel is a little tense now because of the potential war in Iran between the United States and Iran. And if that happens, Israel is a potential target. And then I. People talk a lot about it, and for me personally, if that happens before the day after tomorrow, my flight will probably be canceled. I'm very hopeful that I will be able to to fly before the mess starts, but I'm feeling very good, and particularly maybe that will take us deep into our discussion. I have been working with an organization which is called the brothers in yoga. It's brothers and sisters in yoga, which is non profit organization dedicated to work with PTSD veterans, mostly veterans, because there is a lot of demand now in Israel and we have been teaching a teacher training to train people to work with trauma sensitive yoga for people in that condition. And what is so beautiful about it really, really moved me is that almost all the trainees themselves are PTSD veterans. So these are PTSD veterans that want to work with PT other PTSD veterans to help, and they have been benefited. So for me, I have been teaching for over 25 years, and it has been I have been in gazillion retreats and courses and stuff, and this group is so special, is so different, and I feel that what I'm doing is so meaningful for me and hopefully for others too. So it has been a very special visit to me. I came in order to help in this teacher training. And I'm so inspired by it

Todd McLaughlin: 7:06

incredible kachi. When you witness people that are experiencing PTSD, what aspect or contact point with yoga do you find is one of the more beneficial or ways that people are able to kind of connect into the yoga is it through the asana practice? Is it through just sitting quietly together in a room? What are you finding that there's a specific thing that works really well with helping people to process all that emotion and

Unknown: 7:42

energy, yeah, actually, I do, and it is not the immediate suspect, actually for me, and the most important factor is the community. Community has incredible power in yoga, but also with dealing with post trauma is what people need is somebody else who can see them and understand what they are going to, because they live with demons in their heads, and they live in society that has simply no way to understand what they are going to. And then suddenly there is a place where everybody is going to something similar in a way, and people can voice themselves in a way that somebody can hear. And it is a very supportive environment and very sensitive. And it is the community is the most powerful thing, and we really consciously center this nonprofit organization around the idea of community. Of course, we are using all the tools of yoga, and we are using also modern science and cutting edge research and everything. But by the end of the day, if, as you ask, the one most important, the single most important factor, is the community, yes,

Todd McLaughlin: 9:10

great answer. Good point. Do you find that? Or actually, what is the name? Is there a website that I could direct people toward if they wanted to make a donation to help

Unknown: 9:22

called brothers in yoga. Brothers in yoga, I will try they do actually, Ganga is the beautiful woman who is operating the whole organization, and she's coming sometimes to the state to try and raise some some donations and help, because it is, it's all running on donations. And, yeah, amazing, amazing.

Todd McLaughlin: 9:50

I'll include that link in the description so listeners, yeah, of course. Kashi, can you talk a little bit about your journey into yoga? I'm guessing that you were born in Israel. Did you did you come into exposure with yoga in Israel? Did you start traveling and seeking and find yoga along your journeys?

Unknown: 10:12

Yeah, so I took my first yoga class in 1997 in Israel. I was a student in the University, just to get the context. I was born in in a kibbutz, and I raised in a settlement in the West Bank, and then I kind of moved into secular i i started, I studied in a yeshiva, which is a which is a Jewish seminar, kind of things and and from there, I started to drift a little bit away from the religious part and also politically. I shifted more to the center, and I joined to the army, and I served in a special commander force. And then after that, I traveled in the world for some time, and then I started to study computer and science. So up to this point, there is nothing suggesting anything about yoga or about anything like that. Yet, one day, I was sitting with a friend in Tel Aviv and he say, hey, there is a yoga class for free. Two minutes walk from here. Would you like to take? I say, Sure, let's go. And I just went, and I I didn't like so much the teacher, I didn't like the talk, but somehow, something there caught me. So I registered to a beginner's course, and from there, I just went deeper and deeper. And that was, yeah, 97 was almost, almost 30 years ago.

Todd McLaughlin: 11:50

Wow, very cool. Did you connect with your philosophy of yoga? Was it through a somatic aspect. What was the thing that kind of caught you initially? Do you feel initially?

Unknown: 12:06

It was yoga asana, pranayama. You know, the teacher said you have to do 20 rounds of an Aloma, viloma and three rounds of kapalabhati every day. So I did it. I was a good soldier. I do what I'm told, right? So I just did it. I didn't know. I had no clue that nobody really does it. And and I was practicing every day, very seriously, a lot of Yoga, Pranayama and everything. And then, and then, later on, I was introduced to the philosophy, and that was kind of like hearing something that you always knew and never had the words to say, or maybe I didn't know that I knew it something like this. It has this feeling and but it immediately went home. It immediately I felt that this is what I want. This is what I understand. This is what I believe. So very soon, the philosophy became more important for me than the yoga asana.

Todd McLaughlin: 13:10

Amazing. I noticed you have a podcast called Bhagavad Gita with Kashi. So then my question is, was Bhagavad Gita the first text that you started to connect with and feel inspired to read and study. Or did you come in through, you know, the other classic is the, you know, Yoga Sutras of Patanjali was there? Was there a specific avenue that first really spoke to you?

Unknown: 13:40

Well, I don't remember exactly. I think if I think that the first course, philosophy course I took in Shivananda was the eight limbs of yoga, or something yoga sutras, but I do remember that soon after I started, there was a book fair in Tel Aviv, and I went and I bought some books. And then I met a brother of childhood friend, and he said, Hey, show me the books you just purchased and and I show him, and one of them was a translation into Hebrew of the Bhagavad Gita. And he looks to say, ah, that's the worst investment I read this book. It is useless. The guy is full of ego. The guy who wrote this book, he keeps saying, You worship me. You prostrate to me. You do things to me and and I just kept quiet. I didn't say anything but, but I always remember I feel I'm so lucky that I didn't listen to him. Yeah, I at that time already, I could know a little bit better, and I could recognize that this text is something very special. And I used to read one chapter every night before I go to sleep, and that was kind of my intro. The action to the Bhagavad Gita. Later on, I studied Sanskrit, and I studied all the Indian schools of philosophy, like the, what is called the shaddarshana, the six schools of philosophy. I studied them, and then I got the tools to study the Gita more in depth.

Todd McLaughlin: 15:22

Yeah, nice. Do you mean you feel like because you took the broad, sort of cast net approach of studying each of those six schools that then coming in on Bhagavad Gita, you had a more kind of a wider angle for which to understand what it was getting at?

Unknown: 15:40

Yeah, definitely, I'll tell you. Well, the Bhagavad Gita is a book which is for everyone. Everybody can be benefited by it. You don't need to be a great scholar in order to understand it. Just by reading, you will get inspired. And the greatest brains in the West, like Albert Einstein and many others, they said that the Gita was inspiration for them, but at the end of the day, the Bhagavad Gita is a philosophy book, and it is rooted in very deep philosophy. And the Indian philosophy, probably, like many other philosophies, is very complex and very technical in its basis, and to study it, you need to sweat a lot. You need to put a lot of sweat in order to be able to understand from a purely philosophical point of view, to understand the text and Shankaracharya, which for us, is the main commentator on the Bhagavad Gita. Shankaracharya lived in the eighth century, and he started these monastic orders to which we, our lineage, belong. And he writes that the Bhagavad Gita is not easy to understand. That's why he is writing the commentary, to help to simplify it. And very few people actually sit and study the commentary of Shankaracharya, because that in itself, is very challenging. So if it's really again, it's not necessary. But if you really want to understand the Gita deeply, you need to understand at least, at least something about each of the six schools of philosophy. What is their arguments? What is their ideas? What is the meeting points, what is the dispute, and then the Bhagavad Gita sticks out as something completely different.

Todd McLaughlin: 17:43

Yes, you know, it's so funny. Kashi, when you made mention that the person that asked to see the book that you purchased had picked up on a ego component to the idea of worship me, follow me, which I personally would understand that this is Krishna, which is an incarnation of the Divine kind of saying, you know, worship Me, not from the human perspective of saying, you know, I'm a great human, worship me. But I just have to tell you a really funny story, because the first time I met Dharma Mitra, he was sitting and he was talking to a group, and I heard him quoting the Bhagavad Gita. I was unaware that he was quoting the Bhagavad Gita, so I'm hearing him say, worship Me, and saying some of these lines, and I just misread it. You know what I mean? In my first investigation, I'm like, wow, this is a really interesting situation. Is this, what's happening here, but, but then later on, I realized, oh, he was quoting Bhagavad Gita. Now I understand what that was all, what was all happening there, but it just makes me laugh that the way, maybe in our early development, because we haven't done the type of study that you're talking about, putting hard sweat in to really dig in and investigate, to be able to orientate ourselves, to understand that we our own ego, might cause us to only see the ego. Does that? Does that make sense? Would you agree with her?

Unknown: 19:14

Yeah, I can see what you say, and I agree. Yeah. I I feel that maybe we can say a few words about the Bhagavad Gita, for people who may not know exactly what we are talking about, it is, it is a text inside another text, the Mahabharata, and it is telling a story about a royal family. There is a conflict in the family. There is a war about to take place, and there are two characters, Arjuna is a warrior, and Krishna, who happened to be incarnation of God, is his charioteer, his driver. And just when the war is about to start, Arjuna is experiencing a crisis. He is experiencing. Experiencing a trauma, basically, and he collapses, and he turns to his charioteer, to Krishna, and he asks him to guide him, to advise him what to do. And the rest of the Bhagavad Gita is the discussion between these two characters. Now, when you when we see it in this way, Krishna is speaking in the Bhagavad Gita in three different voices. The first voice is Krishna, that guy who lived in India 5280 something years ago. And this is the guy. He was his cousin. They were friends. He knew him. They had some connection, etc. This is a person, okay, so sometimes in the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna is speaking from this voice like arjuna's cousin, arjuna's friend. Other times in the Bhagavad Gita, the same Krishna is speaking as God bhakta, Ramya, Gita, pasam, sarva, loka, maheshwaram. In the last verse of chapter five, Krishna says, I'm the Lord of the universe. Created all this and and then other times in the Bhagavad, Gita, Lord Krishna is speaking to Arjuna as arjuna's own self. Is like taking in the position of Arjuna self, and he's speaking from that point. So in chapter 10, in verse 20, Krishna says, aha, matma, Budd, Kesha, sarva, bhuta, Shaya, sthita, ha, aha ma disham, Arjuna wanted to know Krishna, how can I meditate on you? How can I know you? And he says, aham Atma, I am your own self, he tells Arjuna. And Shankaracharya explains, if, if you understand that, you don't need anything else. And therefore, in the Bhagavad Gita, very often, Krishna is speaking to Arjuna as arjuna's self. Now, when Krishna says, Worship Me, you can take it in either of the three ways. You can either say Krishna is a guy. He was a very powerful guy. He was a king. He was incarnation of God, etc. So this is one level of understanding. Then you can say Krishna is speaking as God, worship God, surrender yourself to God. Or you can say Krishna is arjuna's own self and my own self in that purpose. When I read the Bhagavad Gita and Krishna says Worship Me, is like, find your true nature, find who you are in reality. Now these are not three different options, like exclusive options is like, at the same time, you can take all the three and benefit, wow, see, and you find you find your focus. You find where is your heart? Some people, they don't believe in God, so it doesn't matter. Do you believe in yourself? Do you exist? Find out that self. So when Krishna is speaking in the Bhagavad Gita in a first person pronoun. You can choose how do you read it? What is the interpretation for it? And you will be benefited.

Todd McLaughlin: 23:29

Wow. Kashi, that is a very good explanation, which I have not come across yet. It makes me want to start reading the Bhagavad Gita again with that understanding.

Unknown: 23:42

Now that's my goal today, from

Todd McLaughlin: 23:44

those three that's really cool. Well, I can't help though Kashi feel a sense of timelessness right now in relation to the text, because at the beginning of our conversation, you made mention that here I am in Israel, I plan to go to India tomorrow or the next day, and if something like a war happens, I don't even know how my you know, I don't know what tomorrow brings, What today brings. So in terms of the spiritual war, so to speak, that Bhagavad Gita talks about, what is your feeling in relation to its ability to transcend all times? Because obviously, if this was composed, say, 5000 years ago or 2000 or what time the Mahabharata was put together, that there probably was a war happening at that point. And then think of how many wars have happened since then and now, like actual physical wars that involve the material universe. So I guess the fact that we're also now feeling like we don't know what. War is about to happen tomorrow. What are your feelings and thoughts as you meditate and focus on these ideas in the current moment?

Unknown: 25:12

Okay, maybe before we talk about my feeling about the current moment, I will relate to more the first part of your question when we read the Bhagavad Gita, it is definitely speaking to us about today, about our lives, but I feel that also it is essential to have at least some understanding of the time in which it was written, when you when we read it in the 21st Century with our understanding, just pulling it to our present day without understanding the context. What was the political situation, what was the life standard, what was how people lived, how people talked, what was important for them. It is very different than us, and we need to spend some time to try to get into the head of the person who wrote this text, because in his time, it was different. You know, I always tell it, tell people that, you know, if our audience, they are even 3040, years old, you can look back 20 years and things that you could say 20 years ago you cannot say today, right? Or things you could do 20 years ago you couldn't do today. Or vice versa, within 20 years, so much has changed in terms of, how do we write things, how do we speak about things? What is politically correct? Et cetera, et cetera. So imagine how it is in 5000 years. And by the way, yeah, some scholar says it is like 2000 but in the tradition, it was written 5200 and something years ago. Doesn't matter for our purpose. The point is, you go so much back if you don't understand how these people talk, how they understood things, what was the political situation? What was were they doing farming? Or were they doing commerce or what, what was it on those days, it will be very difficult to understand the text correctly. And so in one hand, we can use this text, this wisdom, always it is, it is ever relevant. But at the same time, we need to get the context where it was written, when it was written, what was the situation there? Then I would say another thing, forgive me for going so many loops. That's great. Thank you. I met one once, a very great Vedantic teacher. He was not very well known, but he was a great scholar, and somehow he had a liking to me, and we had a lot of discussions, and he wrote a book that kind of settled all the doubts about the teachings of Adi Shankaracharya. Doesn't matter so much. But the point is, I asked him like this. I said, you know, look at the Bhagavad Gita, for example. Krishna is avatar, is God. He didn't know that. 5000 later, 5000 years later, we will sit and we will not understand if he meant this way or that way, why he couldn't explain it in simple way that everybody can understand and there is no dispute. So he said something very interesting that stuck with me. Said, you see this book? He pointed to his own book, the book he wrote about Shankara Adi Shankaracharya says, when you read my book, you finish it. You can throw it. It's done. You have it. It's over. When you read the Scripture, the scriptures remains the same, but you are different every time you read it. And it is written in such a way that at every level, every moment, every situation, you will get exactly what you need. And when you read it 100 times, when you come to read it in the 100 and first time, you will understand something else. It will be relevant in a different way for you. And this is how the Bhagavad Gita becomes super relevant for us, even now, 5000 years later, and also the human nature is human nature. It does not change so much. Circumstances have changed, but the conflicts are the same today, and it is coming so beautifully in the Bhagavad Gita that we. See Arjuna face the same, same conflicts that we are facing now, it's not it's just different in intensity, not in nature.

Todd McLaughlin: 30:08

Yeah, yeah. That is fast. That is so interesting. I agree. Kashi and I would imagine myself and other listeners, or the listener is able to having read any sort of text a second time or a third time. You know when you say that the Bhagavad Gita had a special or maybe the author had some sort of understanding of the ability to convey this information throughout time where it has this ability. Have you experienced that with other books or not on the same level as what Bhagavad Gita has delivered.

Unknown: 30:43

It's nothing to do, particularly in my mind, it's not the Bhagavad Gita as such. It is more. It is more like there are certain books that give us information, and when you get the information, it's over, and there are certain books that give us wisdom. So scriptures, usually, on that class, they give us wisdom. And the wisdom is always relevant, and you always, you can always take from it according to your capacity. It's like, it's like, ever fresh well that you can draw water as much as you can according to to the length of the rope that you have, you know, and, and in that sense, it can be the Bible, it can be the Gita, it can be the Yoga Sutras or other texts. It doesn't matter, yeah,

Todd McLaughlin: 32:12

Katya, I noticed that you were a monk and that now you are not a monk. Okay, is that a fair assessment, I mean. And then I guess, okay. And then I'm curious, can you talk a little bit about what inspired you to become a monk, to remain a monk for 20 years, and then what was the catalyst for you to decide, okay, now I would like to be a householder, yeah?

Unknown: 32:46

Well, yeah, I will tell you. I started my practice, as I said, in 97 and in the first yoga course I took, I met someone, and we had a relationship, and we studied yoga together. We became yoga teachers together. And then I started to get drawn into more into the philosophy and more into monastic ideas. And she started to pull towards household, marriage, kids and all this, and I had to make a decision. So I thought about it, and I decided, okay, I want to see what is there for me in that line in the monastic life. So we separated and about at that time, I met a very special person. He became my guru, my teacher. His name was Swami Chaitanya Nanda. He was direct disciple of Swami Shivananda, and he came. He left India only once, actually, after coming to the Himalayas. He left the Himalayas only four or five times in all those years. One of them, he came to the west to visit the different Shivananda ashrams because the organization invited him as a special guest. And as part of that, he came to Israel, and I have the chance to meet him, and I was so impressed by him. So as soon as I finished my studies in the university, I went to India. In my mind, I was saying I heard so much about the Yogis of India, and I don't want to hear from them, from a third party. I want, if there are great yogis in India, I want to see them. I want to be with them. So I bought a flight ticket to India. The same day, I handed my last paper in the university. I was on the plane in India. So immediately it was I couldn't wait to just finish it and move on. And I went to India, and I already met that yogi, Swami Chaitanya, under so I said, let me go and visit him first, and I will start there and see from there I will find my way. And I came to Uttarkashi, and it's a long story, he took me to his ashram, and he started to teach me Sanskrit, and I was kind of the only one in the ashram that was studying from from him. There were other swamis, all of them, they were in other ashrams. They. Would come once in a while, but I was in his ashram, so I was practically all day with him. All day long. I was following everywhere. And it was very special experience. And he made me study Sanskrit, which I was not very interested, but he wanted me. So I said, Okay, I would do that, because I want to be here, right? And then, after three months, it was my flight to go away. I was planning to go to Bahamas. There is the Shivananda Shonda. And one day, you know, every day, we used to go for a walk on the terrace. There was a new building, and the terrace was empty. We used to walk in rounds for an hour and a half or something every day, for that was his exercise. And we used to talk. And that day, he said, you know, if you want to come back. You can come and I say, no, Swamiji, I already have plans. So he didn't say anything. He just he that was his way, you will see. And then after that, in the evening, I was sitting in meditation in my room, and suddenly, like I'm thinking about what he said, and I remember I say, I told myself, what an idiot you are, like you have here. What's better than this? You can get anywhere, right? You are with the person you have. I have never met anyone who is anywhere near him in my understanding, and what else where else I have to look for anything. So the the next day, when we went for our walk, I said, Swamiji, I thought about it, and I want to come back. And Swami Ji said, like he said, but what do you want? Do you want? He pointed to his orange robe, and he says, Do you want to be one of us? Because if you want to be a householder, don't waste your time. Go and do that. You can always come and visit. But if you want to be one of us, then you come back and continue. And I didn't say anything, because I didn't know this time, I stayed quiet. I didn't know what exactly I want. On one hand, I knew I had the urge for for partnership, connectedness, I didn't know. Maybe later on, I will want children. I will want a family. I had ideas about career. I just finished my computer and management degree, so I didn't know. And on the other hand, I felt probably this type of life is the best for me. I decided to take a little bit time, and the time that I was going to Bahamas and decide. And being there, I was thinking a lot, and finally, I said, You know what? I don't know if it is up to me. I don't know if I'm able to lead this life, but I can try, and it is better to try and fail than never try and always live with the feeling that I missed out something very important. I came back and I stayed with him until he passed away two and something years later, I stay, I stayed with him. And he's, he's my teacher, he's my guru. I studied with him quite a lot. And after that, after he passed away, I went. I went to the Bahamas, not directly, but I went to the Shivananda ashram in the Bahamas. And I started to spend half the time in the Bahamas, half the time in India, continuing to study with his disciples, with his students, more advanced students than me. I went to study with them, and then I became a brahmachari. Brahmachari is like a novice monk. I never got initiated, but I was wearing orange. Everybody called me brahmachari Shankar. That was my name at that time, and I was a brahmachari for 15 years. Altogether. I lived like like a monk, but it is a novice monk. And then in 2014 I decided to leave the Shivananda organization and spend more time in India and pursue my own path. And I, as part of that, I decided to. Take sannyasa to become a Swami, okay, and I got a sannyasa in Uttarkashi from another disciple of Swami Sivananda who was there. And there were actually two disciples of Swami Sivananda and many other Swamis in my initiation. It was a very traditional initiation, three days program, and I became a Swami. And I was very enthusiastic about it, very sincere. I wanted to do it. I wanted to be successful in that. And I started to live as a Swami, which is not very different than the life I had as a brahmachari, and not even very different than the life I have now. But still it was. I got the title, you know, of being a Swami, and I started to move around all over the world and teach in many places. And I also constructed a small ashram in the Himalayas, and it went on for 10 years. Wow. But then, but then, along the way it started, to get different perspective, and I started to have some conflicts with many small things, really petty, small things. Each one of them is not a reason for anything, but all together, I started to feel that I live a life which is not me. It's not, it's not who am I? And I don't know how much you know our audiences know the sannyasa becoming a Swami is, is a one way ticket. You're not supposed to go back. There is no, there is no even system to renounce the renunciation you know, there is no it's not accepted. It happens I'm not, I'm not the first one in history. But still, it is. It is kind of something that is unaccepted. But I started to have conflicts with the clothes I was wearing when I was traveling. I will wear normal cloth. And as soon as I come to India, I change and I or for example, just to give you an idea of I wanted to start doing exercise, because with age, I felt that I need to do a little bit more vigorous exercise. I wanted to start running. But then in Uttar Kashi, where I live, in the sadhu community, in the community of monks, you are not supposed to run that's not accepted, and you are not supposed to have money, and you are not supposed to this, and you are not supposed to that. And you and I started to and you are supposed to be in these functions, and these those things and and I started to feel that I live a life which is not it's not really how I am feeling inside. And that grew into more and more conflicts. It came in different ways, until finally, I approached two of my mentors. One of them was, his name is kuti Swami. We call him. He's an very he's like the senior disciple of my teacher. He's younger than me, but he came on a very young age, and He's exceptional yogi. And I really appreciate his opinion. So I came and talked to him, and also in the other one was Swami Atmananda. He was a direct disciple of Swami Sivananda that somehow liked me a lot, and we became very close friends. Even though he is a very senior disciple of Swami, she is like somehow he liked me, and he used to come and stay with me in my ashram whenever I come to India. And I talked to him, he passed away one and a half years ago. Anyway, I talked to him and had a lot of discussions, and then I took one year sabbatical. I stopped almost completely my teachings, except for the podcast, the Bhagavad Gita podcast I was doing. And I traveled the world. I went to different places, met different people. I have been in seclusion. And my question. The question in my mind was, what, what is my path? What do I want to do? And then in February, 26 February, two years ago, 23 I was in Switzerland and doing the guitar class. When the class ended, I say, I. Uh, guys, stay for a moment. I have an announcement, and I read an announcement that I wrote that I I'm giving up this. I understand the the gravity of my decision, but I believe that this is what I have to do. Considered everything that I know and understand. I said that I want to be nobody. I have been busy being somebody and fulfilling some mission, some form which was not really me, and I want to try to live without, without identity, without being somebody and without pursuing somebody, ness, you know, and I know it sounds very I don't know how it sounds, but, but for me, it was very sincere, and it was a bombshell. For the community, many people know me, and for many people, I don't know what people are thinking, but I was quite determined. And yeah, I did that, and I continued. I continued to do more or less the same. Coming back to India, in my ashram, I still have monks living in the ashram. I support them, and now it is easy. I don't. I can have money. I can do I can take care of this place and these people, and I go around the world and teach. I share the teachings as I understand and as I know it. But now I'm nobody. I don't I'm not coming as a Swami, you know, just, just think about it. When somebody can say, I'm Swami Kashi, already, you come with a baggage already, like there is some who, there is some expectation, there is some idea, there is some and I didn't like it, and I felt that this was not really supportive. And also I could recognize and see that when I became a Swami, it was not purely from the right place, because I don't know how much you are, you are aware of it. But when, when you are a brahmachari, you are like nobody, really. You get everything lost and just by assuming the orange Robin and doing a certain ceremony, suddenly you are first for everything. Suddenly you are promoted. It's like, it's like a promotion, which is from from zero to 200 in no time. And it feels so good. And everybody wants to be with you and everybody. And initially it felt so good, even though my sophisticated ego tried to dress it in as something else. Now I could see and I could say, I that's not what I want. I want to be me. I don't want to to get leverage by the color of my clothes or something like this. Wow. Kashi, it was, it was a I needed a lot of courage to do it. It was not easy at all. And I had few junctions in my life that I had to take a very important decision that was probably the most difficult one, and I did it, and I'm happy. I knew people, people will be talking, people will be saying things. I knew people. Some people may not appreciate it, some people will feel bad. Some people will but I was ready. I said, That's okay. I will go my way. I will do it my way. And anyone who is interested to be in my company, I will welcome them, and other people, I will just wish them love that's it.

Todd McLaughlin: 49:39

Oh, man. Kashi, well, first of all, thank you so much for sharing that and for your honesty in sharing it. I think what you have gone through is courageous and to invest so much energy, passion, time into achieving what you were able to achieve and then to hand that over. I mean, personally, I can't help but feel like that is the true path to not be so attached to the title, the amount of attention that we get from our accolades, from our achievements. And so to be courageous enough to work that hard and then say, You know what I need to follow my heart is admirable. Thank you so much for sharing that, because it's encouraging. You know that? Inspiring for me. I feel so grateful to hear your story, because I remember being in a similar junction to decide to take the Brahmacharya path at one point and investigating my heart at that moment and realizing I'm not willing or able or of that capacity and and so to hear how you journeyed through all that, and then I don't know, just hearing that you were will able to accept what you needed to do and to make that choice, for me, is courageous, and I just feel very inspired to hear that. Thank you.

Unknown: 51:25

For me, the difficult part is that it is not that I was 100% sure that this is the right decision, because, yeah, in life, that's something that I share a lot. In life, we always want to be 100% sure before we are willing to take the next step. And that's not how that's not how we should be, because 100% never comes. And if you wait for the 100% life is choosing for you, you know, so yeah, the life itself with choose your way, and then you don't have a real choice, a real say about it. I believe that. I always say, you make the decision when you have 70% sure, there's still a good chunk of 30% you are wrong. But, but, and that was, it's not like I was saying, Okay, I know for sure this is the right thing. No, I was not sure, but, but I thought that I have enough understanding to take the risk, and even if it's if, even if it turns out to be wrong, I will be okay because, because, in my the next junction again, I will make the decision over 70% and if I keep doing it at the end, I will be successful. Yeah, yeah. And so the difficult part for me is to take decision when I'm not 100% sure that this is the right one.

Todd McLaughlin: 53:01

I hear you. I recently came across an idea. An author wrote that if you pray and or have some sort of relationship with a larger consciousness system God, whatever word we would like to use to describe the idea, and we ask, What should I do? What should I do? That answer can't be given, because that's how we grow through choice. So by just making a choice and learning from that, whether it's seemingly good or bad, is how our growth and transformation occurs. And for me, that was very helpful to hear, because sometimes I want to pray and ask, What should I do? Give me some sort of sign, like what I want to know? And that would be too easy, you know, I don't maybe, maybe our we wouldn't learn and grow and transform if we were given clear instruction. So I don't know. I'm just so happy to hear that again, I feel you know that you are brave and making that choice. And I mean, I know this is a different analogy, but when I have, when I hear my friends that had struggled in relation to say, coming out of the closet and having to go to their parents and say, here, I need to tell you, this is who I really am, and this is what I feel, and I'm struggling to say this, and that turning point of actually acknowledging who they are didn't mean it was all of a sudden easy that that transition was like everyone just accepted them for what, but coming into their own truth did bring about an enormous amount of transformation and growth. So I really respect that you are able to do that, but I can see where that would be so hard. At the same time, I can see where that would have been super challenging decision made to make,

Unknown: 54:55

yeah, of course, appreciate what you say. And we were talking about the prayer. It reminds me Ramakrishna Paramahamsa. I think he was the one who gave this analogy of Swami Vivekananda. His disciple says there are two types of yogis. There is the monkey type and the kitten type. So he says that the baby monkey is holding to his mother. If you go to India and you see all these monkeys everywhere. So the babies, they are, they are catching, they are holding the hair of the mother. And they attach yourself, attach themselves to the mother, and she is jumping from three to three. And if the monkey is not holding holding tight enough, they fall and they can die. You know, on the other hand, the kitten, the kitten is not attaching to anything. It's just crying, crying, crying, and the mother come and picks it and take it to a safer place. So he was saying that the devotees, the bhaktas, they are like this kitten. They just cry to God, and God will take care of them. They will carry them from place to place where. Whereas the vedantins, the philosophers, the Jnana yogis, if you want, they attach themselves to the truth. They don't give up, but, but it is dangerous. If you don't hold tight, you will get in the wrong way, right? Yeah, so, so, so you are, evidently, what you describe, your kitten devotee. You are, you are there, and if you cry to God, God will come and take you wherever you want, but I'm a monkey. I'm not a kid monkey. I attach. I don't have this quality. I wish I had, but I don't have this quality so much of devotion and faith that I'm I'm I'm trying to connect to that side of me and develop it and work on it, but I know that by the end of the day, I'm a little monkey, and I need to attach myself to the tooth tenaciously. And sometimes I fall. Sometimes it is painful.

Todd McLaughlin: 57:16

Yeah, I hear you. Kashi, wow, man. I am so grateful to have this opportunity to meet and hear your story. I am excited to, well, I'm excited for you guys because I know, well, first of all, I'd like to say thank you to Andrew for introducing us, and also to Kyung, Kyung Park, who is just a few episodes ago. So anyone listening now, if they would like to hear your partner and her experience too, that's available and that you both are offering a retreat with Andrew and Pam in Peru in November. I believe it's like 22nd of 2026 Can you talk about briefly what you attempt or hope to attempt to do enjoy in creating a community gathering while in Peru. What are some of your hopes and aspirations when you bring a group together in a locations that's I've never been to Peru, and I hear in Machu Picchu, I've never everybody who comes back is like, you have to go. You have to go. It's like a It's like one of those places that the energy is so amazing that you will feel it, and it's something you, you know, go do it. So I'm just kind of curious what some of your ideas are around it.

Unknown: 58:37

Yeah. So first of all, kyang is my partner for almost a year, we are together, first in New York with Dharma Mitra. That was where we met as a couple for the first time. I did We did meet before, but at that time, both of us were in different places. Anyway, she is She is wonderful. I love her crazily, and we have a wonderful journey together. And last year, we did a retreat in Mexico, just we gathered some friends, and we went to a beautiful place in nayari in Mexico, and we did long weekend retreat. And it was, it was amazing, so we decided to do it again, and we set the time to do it again in Mexico. We booked the place only for me to realize that I committed for Yatra journey in India, for a group from Colombia for the same time on the same time. So we had to look for another time, but it was not available. So what do we do? What do we do? I said, Let's go to Nepal. I have been once in Nepal, and I had, like, you say, a wonderful experience. Nepal is so spiritual in a way, and it is. It is really amazing place. And Valle sa grado, the Sacred Valley, is a very, very powerful and special place. So we looked for something there, and everything fell just in place, and we found this amazing place, and we contacted Andrew and Pam, which are very good friends and very great inspirations of wonderful Yogi couple. And they wanted to come and teach with us. So we decided to go all the four of us. I'm so inspired. Heard by three great disciples of Sri Dharma Mitra, teaching all together and going there to the Sacred Valley, and just the fact of being together for nine days and doing yoga philosophy nature, many other spiritual activities. There will be an exclusion to Machu Picchu and and it is so exciting. We have already a good group. There is still some room if anybody wants to join. But I'm really, really looking forward for it, yeah, it is. It is coming up. It is coming up. We are going to do this. And after that, I'm sure we will do some more. And Kian and I do satsangs in our place, our home in San Diego, when we are there every other Friday, and people come, we serve food, we talk, we chant, we do some wonderful things. And this idea of community again, we talked about community in the beginning of our talk. It is coming back. Community is the backbone of spiritual life, at least for us, somehow there is always the idea of these yogis in the caves of the Himalayas. So I have been in the caves in the Himalayas, right? I live there. I know that they also live in communities. Even if you have a cave, people somehow have these fantastic ideas about caves, and I always say that the cave is a room with thick walls. That's it. At the end of the day, you are the same person. It doesn't matter if you live in a cave, in a tent, in a room is the end of the day, is what you are doing there. And community, even sadhus, even yogis, they for the most part, they live in community, and they understand the power, the importance of communities, those yogis who live alone, not see anyone forever. There are exceptions, and it is not necessarily good for everyone. Yeah, yeah. So we we are put emphasize, emphasis on the idea of community there in San Diego, in Mexico. Also, we spend much time in Mexico, and we have some ideas and plans about Mexico, and Peru will be just another step in that direction?

Todd McLaughlin: 1:03:22

Yeah, wow. Kashu, well, that sounds incredible. I love hearing the logistics and and some of your inspiration and aspirations. I am really grateful to have this opportunity. Is there any words you'd like to part with us here at the end of our conversation in relation to, I guess it's funny, because when I or interesting, when I emailed you initially to set this up, I think I was having a moment of watching the World News and geopolitical news and going, oh my gosh, what's going on. And I wrote you, I think I was interested in a little bit of a moment of like, holy cow, what's going on. And you had responded and said, I don't remember a time in my life where it didn't feel like there was always something wild going on. So I guess in relation to all that, do you have any words that you could send us off with to help motivate, inspire, just help us to stay just nice, calm and grounded as we navigate some of the interesting challenges that are in front of us.

Unknown: 1:04:25

Yeah, I will say this, many people know about the four yugas right in the yogic thought, there are four ages that are coming in cyclical way. There is the golden age. It's called the Satya Yuga. Then there's the Treta Yuga. Is the is the second one, and then the Dwapara Yuga, and finally, the Kali Yuga. Every Age is darker than the previous one and is more difficult and more challenging. And we are now living in Kali Yuga like we are in this cosmology, we are living in the most difficult, most challenging time. And many people use it to think, Oh, it is so terrible. It's so horrible that we have to live in such a difficult, challenging time. But I had a teacher once who said something super interesting. He said, well, two teachers. One is my guru. He said, simply, the human mind is the human mind, regardless of the yuga. So you have to deal with your mind no matter what is the Yuga outside. Inside, you have to deal with your own mind, so we have to remember it. But then the other teacher, he said, when we want to improve, when we want to change, when we want to achieve something, we need resistance, right? For example, if you want to build up your muscles, what do you do? You go to the gym, right? What do you do at the gym? You create resistance. Let's say you go to the gym and you lift one pound. Is how you going to build any muscle? Probably not so much. But if you take 50 pounds and you lift it, you will you create resistance, and this resistance will build up your muscle in the same way when we want to change something about ourselves, if we do it in a sterile environment, when nobody creates any resistance, we are not going to make any progress in the in the Satya Yuga, if you read the scriptures, people wanted to achieve something. They meditated for 200 years. I'm sure you have read some of this story, that Yogi wants to achieve some power, and he sit for 1000 years in meditation, why there was no resistance, there was nothing difficult, but we are living in the most exciting time that there is so much resistance, even a little bit you do can go a very long way. Yes. Krishna says in the Bhagavad Gita, he says, I forgot the Sanskrit well. He says, svappama, piasya, dharmasya triatematobhayati. Says, even a little bit of this Dharma, a little bit of this practice, trayattemato bhayati, it can protect you from a great fear. In other words, he says that, Neha bhatiavana, videotay, that's the first line that I forgot. He says, in in this there is no loss of effort. Whatever you do is count and even a little bit he says, well, palm appeal us. Yes, welcome. Say. He means very little, just a little bit you do fit that will go a very long way. So we live in an exciting time that everything is so hard, so difficult. Thank God, thank God, because a little bit I'm doing now can do so much if I can just be nice to the other person in front of me that goes so far, so far, and that's all we can do and all we are asked to do. Swami Shivananda summarized his teaching to four words, be good. Do Good. That's it. There is. It's not much. It's not, we don't need to study philosophy for 25 years. Just be good and do good. It's so wonderful. It's so positive, and it's so wonderful.

Todd McLaughlin: 1:08:54

Yes, oh man, thank you so much. Kashi, thank you so much.

Unknown: 1:09:02

Thank you, and thank everybody who come and listen to us. I was very excited when you asked me to

Todd McLaughlin: 1:09:10

come over. Oh, thank you, Kashi, this has been a true pleasure, and I really hope to have the opportunity to meet you in person and and follow I think we will. I think so too. Thank you, Kashi,

Unknown: 1:09:22

thank you, Todd. Thank you,

Todd McLaughlin: 1:09:32

native yoga. Todd. Cast is produced by myself. The theme music is dreamed up by Bryce Allen. If you like this show, let me know if there's room for improvement. I want to hear that too. We are curious to know what you think and what you want more of what I can improve. And if you have ideas for future guests or topics, please send us your thoughts to info at Native yoga center. You can find us at Native yoga center.com, and hey, if you did like this episode, share it with your friends. Rate it and review and join us next time you.