Rev. Jaganath & Margabandhu | Timeless Journeys: Tales of Yoga and Discovery

In this enlightening episode, host Todd McLaughlin is joined by Reverend Jaganath Carrera and Margabandhu Martarano, two esteemed figures in the world of yoga, both sharing a profound bond through their shared teacher, Swami Satchidananda. This episode explores their individual journeys of how they met, their teaching philosophies, and how they have built thriving communities over decades of dedicated practice. Reverend Jaganath and Margabandhu offer their wisdom, emphasizing the importance of community within yoga and how it contributes to personal growth and enlightenment.

Visit Rev. Jaganath here: https://www.yogalifecenter.org/

Visit Margabandhu on his website: https://iyinj.org/

Key Takeaways:

• The value of friendship and community in yoga is immense, often guiding personal and collective growth.
• Teaching philosophy inspired by Swami Satchidananda emphasizes fostering understanding and personal transformation rather than dictating behavior.
• Maintaining a spiritual practice and community support can significantly impact personal well-being and spiritual advancement.
• Humor and cultural understanding play significant roles in developing and sustaining long-term spiritual associations.

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Chapters

• 0:03 The Power of Friendship and Collaboration in Yoga Communities
• 6:11 oga Teachers Discuss Compensation and Community Support Models
• 12:54 Gurudev's Car Gift and Catchphrase Story
• 14:47 Lessons in Spiritual Guidance and Personal Growth
• 24:54 Lessons in Patience and Understanding from a Guru
• 31:15 The Importance of Community and Support in Yoga Practice
• 42:22 Swami Satchidananda’s Transformative Impact on 60s Yoga Culture

Transcript

0:33

Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast, so happy you are here. My goal with this channel is to bring inspirational speakers to the mic in the field of yoga, massage, body work and beyond. Follow us at @nativeyoga and check us out at nativeyogacenter.com. All right, let's begin. Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast, and welcome to the show. And I'm really excited for what you are about to hear in this episode. I got an opportunity to do something I haven't done yet, and which is interview both Reverend Jaganath and Margabandhu together. And Oh man, I'm so excited for you to hear this, because, you know, both of these gentlemen have cultivated a friendship, and, you know, studied and practiced yoga together with the same teacher, Swami Satchidananda, you know, well over 50 years ago. And I think there's just something really special about being in the company of a long term friendship like this. And the first time I had the chance to speak with both of them. It was to discuss doing this podcast interview with with one, one on one, with each of them. And through that, I had the feeling that, well, this is what's really interesting here. So please, if you're just coming in on this episode, definitely go back to episode 207 where I had a chance to interview one on one, Margabandhu. Episode 208 the one just previous, where I had a chance to interview Reverend Jaganath, one on one. And now here, episode 209 where we bring both of them together. And I know I'll be listening to this one. Re listening to this one a few times, because I feel like there's a lot of really amazing tidbits and nuggets of wisdom here. I hope you enjoy. Please click on the links in the description so that you can see where both Reverend Jaganath and Margabandu are located. Make a visit to their centers. And I think the overarching theme here is, let's continue to uphold the deeper meaning and teachings of yoga and build a really strong community within our own studios circles, but even on the big picture around the globe. So with that being said, let's get started. Hello, Reverend Jaganath and Margabandhu. Thank you so much for joining me here today for our episode where, on episode number 207 I got a chance to interview one on one. Margabandhu, on the last episode number 208 I got a chance to interview, interview you, Reverend Jaganath and through the process of arranging for these interviews, the first one was a pre interview where I got a chance to speak to both of you just like this. And I found it so refreshing and invigorating having the two of you here together, because I got a sense of the history the both of you have, and I have a friend that I've been he teaches yoga, I teach yoga, and we've been communicating over the last 20 years and helping each other out along the way and and I guess I want to bring a little attention to how valuable and important it is To have a friend along to travel with along this journey, and the feeling that you both had, and when I was listening to you, felt special, and that's why I'm grateful to have this chance to have the two of you together here and hear some stories about yoga. Thank you so much. Thank you on that note, how did you guys meet? I remember the first time Margabandhu wanted you must have been in a program, yeah, yeah. And then you had called and we went, and then I went to New Brunswick, right? Is that right? That's right. I forgot about. At that Yeah, yeah. Margabandhu would come every Saturday. We had a center in New Brunswick, and at that time you were in Garfield, yes, yes. In Garfield spent an hour apart. And I don't remember how it started, but Margabandhu would come every Saturday, and that's when I got the letter from Gurudev to say that how great of a teacher he was, and just to learn from him. And that's what did. I observed and how he treated people. And I saw the power that comes from serving others, you know, a selfless service, that there's a power there. And he, you know, he's incredibly knowledgeable and on all these healing aspects of yoga in life. But I think just having him around is there's something about him that speaks of the essence of yoga. So I'm always feeling like indebted to him. I just heard I've never said, don't change the protocol. So I'm sticking with it. I just watch him and learn from him. Yeah, there's a mutual feeling right here. You know, between the two of us, we're like brothers, and we respect one another's opinion and the way he runs things is really admirable. Really, you have to see people respond to him, you know, I believe that there's a mutual feeling, and that helps both centers, you know, yeah, that's cool. That's That's neat to think about how you know each of you running your own program, are able to support each other, but the energy would be feeding off of each other like that, to have a whole hours distance between. Did you guys have students that would travel? You know, one weekend we'd be going over to your studio, Reverend Juggernaut, and then one weekend you guys would trade off and set up like little field trip situations? Or was it more, more that you, each of you, would just travel and support each other's communities, each other's communities. He would give talks here. See, everybody gravitated towards Reverend Jagannath. You know, he's a little humble about things, but you know, we he's speaking, we all gravitate towards him, you know, he's the man. No, we have a sentence, and we both run our sentence very well, but when it comes to speaking his philosophy is just every word of his is like, like, spiritually involved, you know? So there's a lot of respect for him right now. We have some of our students see him regularly and go to classes there. It's really part of one lineage. I think that's part of the if there's a secret, that's part of it, that we really are following the teachings of Swami Satchidananda, ultimately. So both of us are students of Swami Satchidananda have a lot of things in common over the years. So these students come in and they see that there really isn't a big divide between the two different centers, and they students in my center, they love Marga Bandu, and I love referring people to him often. So that's something that I think more yoga centers should have. That attitude, my experience has been sometimes it's not that way, actually at a really higher level teacher in another organization, and she was meeting with other teachers with my book on the Yoga Sutras, and when the person who's the head of it heard threatened to kick her out. Where you've seen that book, this is yoga sutras. You know, I'm not getting married to them in this person. I wasn't teaching there, but she had come to some talks that I've done, and she thought it was really great to have these, these meetings. And they said, No, you couldn't do that. It's different from us. She got paid so she would lose her income. It's kind of a sad thing to see that kind of thing happen. Well, that's a really good point. I think the aspect of competitiveness, within the realm of the challenge to survive and make a living, probably is one of the big dividing factors in trying to help support a neighboring studio. But I think obviously, in the spirit of yoga, we aim and hope that that won't be the case, but then we see that sometimes, can you both help me understand. And how, how do you both receive compensation for the time and energy that you put in, beyond the good feedback that you have from the feedback that you receive? Because I'm curious what kind of model you've been able to adopt that has worked harmoniously like this. Well, at the I have my own practice, and it happens to be at the institute, see, so I see people during the, you know, during the day, and, you know, they come to me for new nutritional counseling, and I work on them, you know, yeah, and, and, but in between, I'll be I teach at Philly Dickinson University, and we've been teaching here, I think, 54 years. It's accredited course, so that money, because I teach yoga, goes to the institute, so that so in between, I do both kind of my own at the Institute, and then I teach a class. I teach a class on Sunday mornings. It's called art of self healing, Antarctica and necklace. So any whatever I teach yoga, Glee goes to the institute my own personal practice. You know, I That's my my business. Like, understood, I'm an herbalist. So, yeah, understood, thank you. Is that a similar pretty good is that a similar setup? Reverend jaganoff, no, money is different. I'm trying to think where to start with it. Partially, my wife is a nurse, hospice nurse, so that was income coming in. And she said over the years, like anything I do that makes money for me doesn't work. I have to. Always seems like I have to not do it for money. But this group of students that gathered around me, they wanted to know what was like tradition. They really were interested in tradition. They said, Well, you have have your teacher. It's not that you paid the teacher, but you helped support them with, the food, clothing, the basic needs, that's what you do. It as an offering. So one person, who's a bookkeeper, asked me to calculate, what are my expenses, monthly expenses, and that's what I get. I get whatever the I don't even know what the number is, but that was the idea. It's not thought of. It's like a payment for service. But that's helping to support me so that I can't dedicate myself to service. So that's, it's a little different situation than Margo bond do, yeah, that's, that's interesting so far. I mean, yeah, I hear you, and I think like when you see the outcome of the camaraderie that can occur from that, that's a clear indicator that something worked well. Did Swami Sachin Ananda ever receive payment from you guys in the time that you were studying with him, or did he keep that on a very similar thread where you, like, I loved your story. Margo Bandu, about driving him on out in California and getting dropped off, but like, you know you were helping him to be with him while he's driving, you know, that type of thing. You know, you're supporting him, you're helping along the way. Is that how he kept it the whole time? Almost like the same, right? Jagannath, I mean, basically the same. We supported him. And, you know, most of the time he was speaking, he was visiting different centers, so all that traveling and housing had to be gotten from somewhere. So he was supported by the whole organization, right? His I guess that was, is that? Right? Juggernaut, yeah, yeah, yeah, there would be a, wasn't a fee. He never, as far as I know, he never asked for a certain amount of money. Yeah, you know, it was never, never even a part of the conversation. We just did it as an offering that that made sense to us, and that covered, you know, all the travel, if you had to fly, or the hotels or whatever, we would take care of that. And then I'm sure it's similar Margot Bonner, anything actually would go to him as well, because you know what the feeling is, what we receive from that kind of expertise and care. We really want to support that, but I don't remember him ever asking, yeah, that's pretty amazing. That's an amazing trait. That's a very admirable trait. We don't see that very often these days, no, yeah. Way that he earned money other than when he would teach Marco bando, I heard you say that you, prior to seeing record that you offered your teacher training for free over these years, that that's um, can you explain a little bit about how you structure your training and what what kind of energy comes out of of offering something like. This to people. I mean, it's not me just offering you that we have a teacher's training program, and people come, people that have been taking classes or doing yoga for a while, and they want to, you know, take teachers training, and we have a certain fee, and our teachers that teach the teachers training don't get paid. All that money goes to support the institute. We have a rent here. We have a mortgage here. We have expenses, you know, so and then we have people that we have a secretary and who, who does calm yoga as well, and she takes care of all the bills. So anything that's made financially, we give to her, and she allocates it, got it, pays mortgage, she pays the bills. And then it's similar to what juggernaut center does, too. And basically, you know, yeah. And, you know, even good of I used to have him when he said Philly Dickinson, and he would get a fee, you know, and then he would just give it to the center. He'd pay the bills. He would never keep it, yeah, you know, yeah. And if he wanted something. You know, he got it. He just, can I tell you funny story, jacket, do you know the story? Gert ever got the car? No. Car? No, that was that green. Yeah? Imperial, right? I think, yeah. At the time, how I met the Gerda was through the rascals, the young rascals. I don't know if you remember who they were. Todd, I do, I do. I do the rest. Yes, Rosie, Eddie brigadian, and I was always with him. And then Miss Swamy, such a and that's how you got to meet Swami. Said none. So they would see him a lot, especially Felix Cavalieri. He was really into the philosophy of yoga. And he was, you know, so we, we were on Swami session on a lot. So a lot of times we would take him some places. And at that time, the rascals had their own car. They had an organization. Car was a brand new LeBaron, beautiful le Baron. And we used to, they used to pick up Swami session on. Then the car was a very comfortable car. It was a luxurious car. And he said, he said, really like it? So Eddie Bugatti would say, you like this car? Oh, he's very comfortable for me. Because, you know, Swami has to go places, so he has to be very comfortable. So they said, you want it, you got it. So they gave me the cook, you know, that basic term you wanted, you got it. It was familiar. It was It wasn't that familiar to Swami Satchidananda, and he picked up on it. He picked up very quickly on our language discussion. So after he gave him the car, he's given a talk at the same John the Divine church. And somebody asked him, good of I would like to see God. He says, you want it? You got it. You asked him to go. He would see, is it possible for me? They would say, you want to You got it. You know, use that term in the lecture. How they gave him the green labarron, beautiful car. How was his English when he first came over to the states? Was he like people didn't send the vowels and consonants were a little off, but most, most of us could understand, we understand the gist of it. Yeah, you know? Yeah. It was close quarter. So he would noise to be with him. In the beginning, we had private consultations. So those private consultations, you got to understand, my first consultation with him was, it was like a psychiatric, you know, visit, you know, yes, you know, he was in the chin. We talked about things, but, you know, he explained to me drugs, you know, talking about the drugs I did. And, you know, and he would always ask questions, and it seemed like, even though he asked questions, he seemed to know everything about it. So one time he asked me, What is this okay to talk about you? Absolutely. Oh my gosh, yes, please, please. He asked me about LSD. And so I was telling him, he goes, Well, he explained. He says, what that really does he and he told me. He says, when you take a certain chemical, it activates the serotonin, and what happens your third eye, it raises the channel up, and then when the drug goes up, it closes down. So that's why you have something called a bad trip. You know? You explain that to me. He says, with meditation, it throws up the serotonin, opens up the eye, but doesn't close back down. And that was really clear to me about meditation and how so that's how he explained things to us, yeah, about how accepted that. He brought everything down to the lowest common denominator. He explained the physiology of it, mechanics of it, and then that's how he accepted it nice, that's was and he did. He even in the beginning, he didn't tell us to become a vegetarian. He told us the mechanics of eating and about the food and you know, and that's how he did everything with us. He never demanded anything of us. He explained it to us very clearly, and we bought into that philosophy. Is that jaganna Is that sounds perfect. Yeah, that's exactly what it what it was like with him. Never demanded. He once said to me, said, anything that's good, I can't keep you from doing anything that's bad. I can never make you will do, like, thinking of the whole Sangha that way, that, I mean, that's like a guiding force, in a way, to not think of like changing people, but like Margo bonded says, you just simply present. That's what he would do. He was, there was never a sense of being forced to do anything. Yeah, I love that, because I remember Margo bond to the story you told me on the last session about how when you went to give the speech to on celibacy that he had said to you, just remind them that it's not a sacrifice. And I was thinking about that the last few days, since I heard you say that that's such a interesting way to approach teaching, in the sense of what you both are reiterating now on letting almost like encouraging us to make our own minds up. So it's not like somebody telling me what to do, but I Oh, and like that inspiration I can come from. I was, you know, when he explained to me, because there was nuns and priests and I'm saying, Where am I, you know? And that's first he told me, it's not a sacrifice. They told me the physiology of it. And he, just after I gave the talk, there was a one of the priests was a scientist. He taught science, and he explained that was very interesting. They enjoyed it, you know, because I was a little nervous about it, in a way, yeah, I say, okay, but he explained to me physiology of it, and I hadn't heard it that way before, you know, the way he explained, he explained to me over the phone. I kept calling him, you know, and, and that's what he said, very clear, very interesting, you know, rebuilds your system. Regenerates every cell, increases the product. I mean, you had to buy into it. And I mean, the way he explained it. You know, Reverend, Reverend Jack, not Was there ever a time that he asked you to do something that you felt a little nervous about in relation to teaching or presenting? It's interesting because story came to mind that was really to me, uh, Pivotal on a lot of levels. I was at Rutgers University. I was part of the campus ministry, and it was one point in time the ministers admit. They said, we want to do programs to help the students, like anti drug and whatever they were talking about. And so I was at a talk. There was me, Catholic priest, and I don't know what very conservative Christian young woman, and I don't remember what the topic was, but towards the end, we had questions and answers that one young man raised his hand and he addressed the question to me, and it was very intellectual. And it always was. Every certain sentence was started with, if God wants, if God wants, if God wants, I'm listening to it. And I was studying that time a lot of Yana yoga, so I was in that state of mind. So I was saying, well, basically it's not that God wants anything. God has everything. And next to me is this woman, and she starts shaking, literally shaking, and I see her vibrating it. And according to her, I said she's going to explode, and she did. She leapt over to me, she's and put her hand over my mouth and said, I don't like your God. Oh, somehow I felt calm. I said, Okay, I was sitting there and a priest I was got to be friendly with. He said, Well, this is what he was trying to say. He kind of smoothed it over. Next day, I had to call Gurudev for some business reason. After we did the business part, I told him what happened. I said, What could I have done better? Like, what could I do? And he was giving me some advice. And you know about he said, you you shouldn't have started with that, that kind of heavy philosophy, just like, find the where you that's what it was, find what your point in unison, that you have what do you have? In unison, and then give it a yogic twist to find something. And then there was this pause. This is the part that really was interesting to me, he says. And his his whole demeanor changed in the world, he said, Now I remember now I want you to call that minister and tell her everything that we said, tell her that you called me, and say everything that I said to her. And I said, this is one of those kind of Guru moments I'm just going to do. Hung up. I called the phone. And so she's this very nice woman, very conservative, very conservative. Christian. So I said, Well, I called my guru this morning, and this is what he said. And I went through the whole thing with her, and he didn't tell me what to do after saying it, so I just stopped, and for a while there was just silence, because you didn't tell me to do anything. I'm just waving. And then she said, I never heard anything like that before. Let's talk. I really where I was, I forget what state she was in. Was way in the country. Said I never even saw a Jewish person till I came to New Jersey. And I went to her house. She said, Come over, like, two o'clock or something. I went there. And between the time we talked, when I got there, she came to me and said, there's a cherry tree in the backyard, and I was picking the cherries, and I made a cherry pie for you. Oh, had a cherry pie, too much chocolate. And she just said, I never understood this until you went to like, went through this explanation of why you said, what you said, and and I thought there's a couple things there about how he taught us. There was a little bit of a challenge. He says, then just go and do it. He didn't. And I could have asked, What should I say, or more information, but he was very definitive. And I think he felt that maybe I had the ability to just, you know, convey the teachings to him as it was delivered to me, so there can be a challenge as well. And then at the same time you see these teachings in the proper light, you have someone who really was as far away as you can get from these teachings. And she found something that opened her heart, and she started talking to me like, I don't have many friends here. I don't know what to do. Very different culture. And so she and I became very close those friends. So that, to me, was illustrative, yeah, the different ways that a master can teach. Sometimes it's a challenge, sometimes it's laid right in your lap. And this one wasn't this one required with me, I felt to just follow his teachings and see where it leads me. Great story. Great story. Yeah, that would be that would make me feel a little nervous. Also be quiet. Stop talking. You're You're really making me uncomfortable. Yeah? Margo Banda, did you ever have a moment where he asked something of you and you had a hard time, or or an easy time doing, like, what Reverend Jagannath said, of like, I'm just gonna do this. Like, this is uncomfortable, I don't know, but I'm just, I'm just gonna do this. I gotta, I gotta tell you a story. This is like a real test years ago, you know, like when it first Gerda was in New York, and there was a couple that used to take them around different places. And so one morning, they called me up, and they says, maka, Bandu, we would good. EV, and he wants to invite you to lunch. And he says, we pick you up and we take it to Connecticut. I was living in New Jersey here, you know. So I said, Yeah, it's fine. So I happy the staying at this friend of mine's house, and I invited her to come too, you know. And I we drive up to Connecticut, the four of us, you know. So we get there, and there was two women that served Swami session at that time, Amma and Shanti. So I'm sitting there. We're waiting for great Evan, and Shanti comes out. She's got this weird look on her face, and she says, Marga Bondo, the girl wasn't invited. She has to leave. I said, Whoa, no, I have to make a decision. They hear with her, or leave with her, or listen to the guru. I mean, I was like, and it just happened, I know that feels Cavalier with the rascals. Had bought a house near Guru Dev, so I called him up. I says, You gotta do me a favor, like I ran into this little problem. Could you I have a friend? Could I bring her over? Could stay with you for a while? Figures only for lunch. 11 O'clock, 12 o'clock, there's no problem. Make a long story short, seven o'clock, and I am still there. Oh yeah, yeah. And he's saying, and now he's testing me. Smart. Gabon, do you want to see the I really good video. You want to watch that? And I'm like, and he said, Then he then he stops. He said, Listen. He says, I'm just showing you how it is, you know, if you want to, when you get to the fire, when you get close to the fire, it gets hot. He says, and to be with a guru. He says, it's challenging for me is it is for you to do this, you know? And he says, go pick up the young lady. He says, You explain to her, and if she doesn't get upset, then she's, you know, that person, you can, you know she's okay. If not, then she doesn't understand. I. Yeah, so I went back, we picked her up, and being there, she was, feels Cavalier, delicious all day, I guess she didn't really mind. She's like, No, leave me here longer. Yeah. But she was, oh, you know, she was okay, and it worked out okay, you know, yeah, but that was, I was really freaked out. I mean, really was, you know, that's so interesting. But she wasn't invited. He they called this couple to call me and I just come. I want you to just come, like, you know, like, really informal, yeah, but something like that, you know. And that was a real lesson. So it sounds like, though, like, in some way, he cheekily, cheekily knew, yeah, like he was teaching something, yeah, you might as, you know, it was, yeah, it was, that was a real test. That's a good one. That's a good yeah. He said other things with me, but that was, that was one in the beginning, yeah, you know, then the other time, when he did certain things, I then I got to understand what he was doing to me, you know, like he would leave me. He left me on a Santa Monica freeway. One time he left me at a lecture. This is we. He was speaking at saddle Brook High School. And to come I used to work on him. He said I used to massage you know. So there was this motel, the Marriott Hotel. It was about a mile or two from the high school, so I figured, well, I work on him, and then we'll just drive to the high school. So there was two rooms. So the room that I worked on, it was one separate motel room, and he was with guests in the other motel room. He said, So I work on he says, Stay here until I call you, and then we'll go together, you know. So it was about six o'clock. I finished him, and the lecture was at seven o'clock, something like that. So I'm waiting in the room, you know, 630 I says, Well, we should start getting over. I'm talking to myself, seven o'clock. He's still not getting me, and I don't want to go knock on the door, because he says, wait here until wait here until I call you. So I was going to listen. Now it's 730 and I'm, like, a little concerned, but I'm still not going to knock on the door. Eight o'clock. Shock. You do it again. No. Phone, actually, sure. Yeah, he was walking. He came to the school shock. He's waiting him. And they wonder where I am, and I'm still in the motel, you know, waiting for him. I'm watching some television show, you know, now it's eight o'clock, 830 and and then Shakti calls me. Where are you? I said, I'm waiting for good. He finished the talk already, so now I rushed to the high school, and he comes walking eyes. Got this big grin on his face, like I did it again to you, plus, I don't know how I knew how to get to high school, right? Yeah, good point. I hear you that that test of that patience to to know wind sensor so but, and he's done a number of things over the and it was just like, no words. I was a type you couldn't holler at me because I'd disappear. I didn't respond to that type of treatment. Yeah, you know, yeah. And some people, you'd yell out, scream and discipline with me. He just left me places number of times, and then I would figure out what, what I was doing or something, you know, but that's how I was. He responded to me. Just leave me there. You know, do you that's so classic I have. Do you guys ever feel like with students, you're having to consciously think about how to teach in the best way to that person's capacity. Because it seems like, you know, it sounds like, from the stories you're telling me, he had this a good capacity, an amazing capacity for knowing, a really good a way to teach a lesson without just coming out and saying, This is what I want you to know, you know, and have you been, have you both been able to kind of adopt that in your in your teaching, you've had a lot of time to practice, so I'm guessing your answer is going to be yes. But can you shed any insights in in some of the how to do that? Maybe for a budding teacher, for a teacher coming up the ranks, or someone interested in teaching that's listening. What kind of advice could you lend and how to be ready for each person? Jagannath would be good at that. Human beings are complex teachings of yoga are complex, right? So the palette you have is, like huge I think if as a yogi, it's a secret, you go through years of sadhana, different kinds of practice, different kinds of things. You study and you learn kind of the ways of the mind, how the mind. Mind can aid or get in the way of your of your growth. So I think the first part of it is your own experiences and your own sadhana, and then you start seeing that kind of universal thinking and activity in people, and what will help that person come to the next level, where to see it another way is like, Are they ready to face some difficulty? Not. I'm not talking about anything really heavy with kind of like, the kind of stories we have which have this, maybe a sense of humor, but that there the students, faith is what drives them. So you're always looking for, like, what would increase faith in that person? So you watch, I mean, that's what I do, watching how they sit, what they do, you know, how they interact with each other, where they're relaxed. And then there's also those students coming and saying, I you know, can you help me with this situation I have in my life? And you start adding that all together, along with your own insight, and it's a little bit of prodding here, or like unit of they said, often, sometimes people have to screw too loose, and sometimes, so you get to do, which is a screw two type person, a screw two loose person. And what's also really important, though, is Sangha, yeah, that they people supporting each other because they can't always come to the main teacher, or they may not want it because they're embarrassed, or whatever it is. So to have, I think you mentioned it earlier on, Todd in the beginning, about having a friend or someone having a viable, active Sangha is really, in some ways, that alone can take you to enlightenment over time. I love that. That's really important. There's a quote from Adi Shankara Acharya, great philosopher from, I think, eight, the eight hundreds, or somewhere there. And basically it's when you're in good company, you're not in bad company. When you're not in bad company, you lead a more virtuous life, you could read a more virtuous life the mind, the mind becomes steady. The mind becomes steady liberation. So in total enlightenment is this chain comes out after a chain of events that begins with just being with community, community of fellow seekers, so that that's really important. And I know in Marga bondu, and what I do like thinking of programs that will help boost that things that they have interest in, and things that could be interesting to them, that they've never thought of before and feel supported no matter where they're where they're at on the scale of yogic accomplishment. Everybody wants to, like, move a little bit further, and everybody wants to feel that they have value, which is something that I think of a lot, that if you don't feel your life has value, nothing works, that that has to be, you know, part of the process at the very beginning, that you are valued, valuable, not because you're comparing it to anyone else, but you have a reason to be born. You have a reason to be here, and you have something to do that no one else can do. And I think that is is part of that picture of sangha, that each person is invaluable. So I think that's what I would say. And I'm say, Mark about it, how you would well said, Very well said, with Swami Satchidananda instilled in us and Reverend jagada does the same thing that we actually support each other in our in our journey in Karma Yoga, we understand different fallacies and what we're doing wrong and what we could do better, and we understand each other, and then we support each other, even if we're doing something wrong. We try to encourage instead of getting mad at them, we try to support them and say that. You know, this is what we feel. Reverend Jack and I, we know 50 never had, like, a bigger than one second, not even one bicker. Yeah, that's amazing. Like, it's amazing, really. That is amazing, though. That actually is really amazing, because anytime I have long term relationships that have had lots of bickering, so to be able to have one where there's a common thread, there's a certain respect, mutual respect, that maybe, why do you think that is, though, and even if we were to remove ourselves from ourselves in the sense just analyzing it from afar, how? How does that work? Is it that you, you guys, feel? Like, you know, there's a certain level of joy that each of you are able to maintain. So therefore, each time you come together, you just want to celebrate in that joy and and, I mean, because that is an amazing thing I do, I always hold the hope and the belief and faith that we could all do that a little bit more on planet Earth and in our communities, we have the same key Guru Dev, and he instilled that us, but our personalities are that are like that too. Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, that's personality, my but basically, almost like the same. It's like he's a brother. I never have four sisters and I had a brother. I always wanted a bride. Say I need a brother. Four girls, you know, Jack Nick came along, and I was okay. I think a lot of it is, is, is the faith you have, but it's an extreme faith, in a way, yes, make it sound bad, but it's an extreme faith. And I think also, as I was listening to Margaret speak, it's having a good sense of humor. Yes, there's a lot of laughing when we aren't Monday night together. There's a lot of laughing, and there's a lot of warmth and and a lot of, I mean, it's almost like it's unnecessary, but there is this sense of like we are who we are as individuals. And he's not trying to change me. I'm not trying to change him. We're respecting who we are, how we are, yeah, yeah. And all the differences we may have and what we eat or do or like, those are, like, all minor. That's my my spiritual brother, and this is a great respect and love for him. I think it's just that it's a higher degree, and that's why you don't see it that often. It just so happened that, you know, our karma put us together 50 years ago. Todd, yeah, so I was certainly somebody the other day. It was fine mine, and they have a lot of respect for jogging, I, you know, and they know his value. So I said, Yeah, we talking about the Yankee he talks about the Yankees. That was like, it was a good baseball but it was good baseball players. Oh, eating, coming from heaven. He was well, he had about the father too. They couldn't believe it. They didn't know this story. Yeah, yeah, okay, doesn't it seem like the more we bring it down to earth and people see how normal and human we are, that that really fosters a healthy spiritual community. Yes, yes, definitely, definitely, yeah. But I am really appreciating, though, the value that you both are bringing in my mind to having how important the community is, and that just seems like, I guess that's something that I feel very grateful to be a part of the yoga community. I feel like I'm very grateful to have to be in this community, and I feel like almost any yoga practitioner in the world, we all are a part of like one same community. And yet it is really fascinating how we have all these smaller communities building up into this one large community, and then probably even taking it a step further as a human, the human community that's even beyond like, obviously, there's a lot of humans on Earth that don't have never heard of yoga, or they think it's yogurt. But um, I, um, I guess I, that's what I'm really appreciating about meeting both of you is, is this, this feeling of larger community that, that I guess I'm dreaming of, and wanting to hold on to it and build more of I think it just feels so important right now. Yeah, go everyone. I just think sometimes a lot of groups or yoga and organizations and juggernaut speaks have more centers than I do. Some of them lost their whole concept of Yoga itself, what it really means, and that's when they run into difficulties. You know, the whole concept like, how do how good have taught us. He broke everything down to the lowest common denominator, I mean, and he explained it very clearly to us. And I don't think a lot of groups had that experience that we had with Swami sachidananda. I mean, he just explained everything very clearly, the purpose of service, the purpose. He explained everything, and even in the beginning, the base, it. Gave us the mechanics of eating, not being lustful to food. And, you know, without telling us to do anything, he just explained the benefits. That's it, you know, and most of us at that time in the 60s, was like there was a lot of drugs and poor diet and bad behavior. And he came in, and even in New York, people were chastising him. What do you Well, these like animals for their long hair, they're freaks. They're dirty, you know? And he said this to my children, and he brought us up, and look what he did. He created this city for us in Virginia, a lotus a temple which represents all the religions. Nobody even thought of that, you know, yeah, his thinking is amazing, above and beyond any master, any teacher I've seen. And I was, you know, I was into Catholicism when I was, he was a multi boy, you know, and I believed in God. But there's nothing that could be compared to his teaching. And he even had other yoga masters, because he was so giving of himself and giving of his own personal leadership to express himself to other organizations and give himself to other people. You know, yes, it shows, it shows the value of having a very strong, clear minded teacher. Yes, so and i He's when I've seen him with prisoners, I've seen him with intellects. I've seen him with no he was basically the same, just, he related to everybody. Was just, he was comfortable in any situation, even with children. Oh my god, the best, right? Watching him with with children is amazing, like preschoolers and all. It's just just, there's a beauty and elegance in everything he did, even with these young kids and how they would, you know, crowd around him. And yet, they knew that if there was something that was off kilter, he would correct it and they would follow it. Wow, they knew that there was that there too. What do you guys both know about his childhood? Did he ever convey what his growing up? What his life was like growing up? Yeah, there's a biography, a possible piece. I apologize I haven't read it yet, but I will now that you brought it up. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, his family was very religious. They had all kinds of great yogis come and visit their place, and they would host them. So his experience with the teachings goes from birth, he was married for a while, and then his wife passed away, and at that point, he said, It's time for me. He was drawn to the life of a sanyasi renunciate, and I studied with several famous teachers, Aurobindo Ramakrishna was actually chit bhavananda, one of the disciples of Paramahansa, Ramakrishna and others as well. And then he found his guru, Swami Sivananda. And I don't know how many years he was there, for years as a student, and was ordained or initiated into renunciate sanyas. And you know, we know how he revered his master, and how he related to him, and all these things. Are talking about the tests and the prodding and then the supporting and always coming, it seems, at the right time. So I think a lot of he got from his master as well. And then was it 1966 right? Margo bonded. He came to New York, supposed to be with two days or three day trip, yeah, then he had a 30 day visa. They were supposed to leave. Didn't happen. Didn't happen. He didn't have people just wanted him to stay. Yeah, he befriended two teachers, brother David and Rabbi government. Brother David was a Benedictine monk who became very close to great heaven, Rabbi government and and they helped, like, prolong his visa. Do you know the whole story, talking about all of it, but I know it was really important, because at that time, the idea of any kind of interfaith and someone a Hindu monk, is how they would think of it. What's he going to tell people here? How was he? What is his what is the content of his teaching? Is it going to lead to more drug abuse, or what is it? And Rabbi gelberman and brother David, both very respected, both really worked hard that he would get this as a permanent visa. I forget what it was called, the Minister of divine words or something, yes, yeah, something like that. Yeah, yeah, wow. And that's how he got a visa to stay. But. Basically people our age, you know, the hippie type of folks, who's a lot of the that was the organization. And there was something exciting about that, the idea that you could change really, you know, we wanted peace on earth, and all these things. Did a lot of things that didn't work. But here was a man who gave us something that does work. Maybe it's a little differently. It's like one person at a time. But look what's happened over the years. He's had like, 1000s of students. I don't know if he never kept track, and we don't, we don't know how many. We know that he spoke several times around the world, yes, yeah. And spoke 1000 so he fit where we were in the 60s, and that's when I think 60s and early 70s, I guess in yoga really grew at that time really rapidly. And it's still here. It still has a good message for today's world. I I'm so excited to hear these stories, because, from my very first glimpse of his picture on the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali commentary, I, you know, like you'll I see a picture, and I just feel attracted, you know, and but now to have the opportunity To speak with both of you and hear these stories from direct you know you have this direct contact just feels really good. It feels, it feels, uh, brings it to life. Brings more life to it, more life than I knew about. To feel the history and to get a chance to speak with both of you, I feels like a little bit of a full circle moment for me. So I, I'm, I'm really thankful you both have been so generous, and since my first meeting, it's been a real pleasure. And I don't, I know this is not the last time I'm going to get a chance to see and speak with you, and I can't wait for it to actually be in person. I love zoom and all, but I really want to see both of your centers, so I will make it a point to travel up and please, if you, either of you are ever in Florida, we would be so honored to have you in our humble little studio here. It's not huge. I don't know if it would be big enough for you guys, but it would be a real it'd be a real honor. It really was. What town are you in? A town called Juno Beach. We're in Juneau Beach, which is about like 20 minutes north of West Palm 20 minutes north of West Palm Beach, about an hour and 15 north of Miami. That might be in Florida in April. Oh, man. Margo bond, you please. I have a well, I mean, I would love to host you. If you So, please keep stay. I'll stay in touch with you and check out. But if you do come, don't hesitate to just let me know. I won't feel like that's being overbearing in any way, like just reach out and say, hey, guess what? Todd, you mentioned it. I'm coming, and I would be honored to have Have you, have you here. That would be amazing. So if you ever do come, and I will come visit, and I really do appreciate your generosity, and I can feel your generosity, from your sadhana, from your practice, from your devotion and and I'm just grateful for it. Thank you. Thank you very, very generous, and we really appreciate you. Really, yeah, yeah. I think how I always think at the end of a talk like this, said the same thing every time I think, spend a little time every day for your health and peace, then share it with everyone. We just had that. Keep that in mind. We can accomplish a lot, a lot of good in this world. I think those are perfect closing words. Reverend Jagannath, thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Marco bondu, this has been a real treat. All right, until next time. Until next time. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. God bless you. You're doing good work. Thank you. You too. Well, we'll keep supporting each other here. Yeah. Native yoga. Todd cast is produced by myself. The theme music is dreamed up by Bryce Allen. If you like this show, let me know if there's room for improvement. I want to hear that too. We are curious to know what you think and what you want more of what I can improve. And if you have ideas for future guests or topics, please send us your thoughts to info at Native yoga center. You can find us at Native yoga center.com, and hey, if you did like this episode, share it with your friends. Rate it and review and join us next time you. Oh, for you know you.