Rev. Jaganath Carrera ~ 50 Years of Yoga in Service of Swami Satchidananda

Reverend Jaganath Carrera is a renowned yoga practitioner, teacher, and author with nearly 50 years of dedication to the path of yoga. He studied under the esteemed Swami Satchidananda, an iconic pioneering force in bringing yoga to the West and founder of the Integral Yoga Institute. Reverend Jaganath is recognized for his insightful translations and interpretations of the Yoga Sutras, most notably authoring "Inside the Yoga Sutras." As an Integral Yoga minister, he has been pivotal in advancing the understanding and practice of yoga philosophy, also serving as a revered mentor and teacher to many in the field.

Visit him on his website: https://www.yogalifecenter.org/

Key Takeaways:

• Reverend Jaganath Carrera's introduction to yoga was sparked by Richard Hittleman’s television program, further deepened upon exposure to Swami Satchidananda's teachings.
• "Inside the Yoga Sutras" was created as a response to a call for modern interpretations, aiming to update and simplify the complex language of Patanjali's Yoga Sutras.
• The essence of yoga lies in a harmonious relationship with nature, fostering experiences and realizations that lead to enlightenment.
• Reverend Jaganath emphasizes the power of humility and service in spiritual practice, viewing life as a continuous opportunity for learning and sharing wisdom.

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Chapters

• 0:03 Rev. Jaganath Carrera's Journey to Writing Inside the Yoga Sutras
• 3:56 A Journey from Catholicism to Yoga Through Spiritual Encounters
• 15:48 The Journey of Yoga Knowledge and Personal Enlightenment
• 24:18 The Intersection of Yoga, Spirituality, and Household Life
• 36:06 Unexpected Challenges and Miracles in Ceremonial Roles
• 43:59 Exploring Yoga's Essence and Nature's Role in Enlightenment
• 57:18 A Grateful Conversation Between Todd and Rev. Jaganath Carrera

Transcript

0:33

Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast, so happy you are here. My goal All right, let's begin. Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast, I'm so happy that you're here today. My very special guest is Reverend Jaganath Carrera. You've already had a chance to listen to the previous episode where I got a chance to interview Margabandhu and this week, I have one of his close friends, Reverend Jaganath Carrera, here on the show. Reverend Jaganath Carrera is the author of a book called inside the Yoga Sutras, a Comprehensive Source Book for the Study and Practice of Patanjali Yoga Sutras. He is a student of Swami Satchidananda and Reverend Jagannath Carrera I read his a short bio. Has shared the joy and wisdom of the Yoga Sutras with 1000s of students for over three decades. He's a long time Disciple of Sri Swami Satchidananda. He's taught all facets of yoga at universities, prisons, yoga centers and interfaith programs. He established the Integral Yoga ministry and as a spiritual advisor and visiting lecturer on Hinduism for the one spirit Seminary in New York City. He is a former chief administrator of such an Ananda ashram YogaVille, and founded the integral Yoga Institute of New Brunswick, New Jersey, where he is the director for 14 years. But this book was written in 2006 so it's been much longer than that. He served as a dean of academics at the with this channel is to bring inspirational speakers to the eastern School of acupuncture and as a member of its governing mic in the field of yoga, massage, body work and beyond. board, senior member of the integral yoga teachers Council. He co developed highly regarded integral yoga meditation and Raja yoga teacher training certification program. Yes, that's what I'm talking about. And so I'm so glad that you're here. You get a chance to meet and listen to Reverend Jaganath. I'm so grateful for this opportunity to to learn and listen and speak with him. And then on the next episode to follow, you're going to get a chance to hear me interview both Follow us at @nativeyoga and check us out at Reverend Jaganath and Margabandhu together. These guys have such a incredible rapport with one another, so much mutual respect and love, and I can't wait for you to hear it. Thank you so much for joining in. Let's go ahead and begin. I'm so delighted to have this opportunity to bring Reverend nativeyogacenter.com. Jagannath Cora on to the podcast today. Reverend Jaganath, thank you so much for joining me. I really appreciate this. Well, thank you, Todd. It's a pleasure to be with you. Well, thank you. I feel honored, and I have the pleasure. My first yoga sutras book was Yoga Sutras of Patanjali, a translation and commentary by Swami satchan Ananda, and because I in part, was really, I don't want to say confused, but I found it challenging. I didn't know how to make sense of it, in which case, I found your book, which was published in 2006 called inside the Yoga Sutras, a comprehensive source book for the study and practice of Patanjali yoga sutras. And I started being able to make a little more sense out of things. So first of all, thank you for putting your energy in time. It's an incredible book, and to now be able to sit down with you here and ask you questions, I feel really lucky. So thank you. Thank you. But I have to say that sometimes people will publish a quote from the book, and I don't recognize it at all. You're like I wrote that. Wow, this guy could really sound so erudite. Maybe even start wondering, like, Are you sure you got that from my book? Maybe, maybe you maybe got the authors mixed up here every day, there was a quote that was published, and I said, I have to take the notes about this. I. I think in a certain ways, time has gone on, while a lot of the technical aspects of the teachings are still important for me to speak on, I find myself getting in a way simpler and maybe in a certain way, more focused and maybe even deeper. Mm, you go through all the fluff of the sutras, because a lot of them are difficult, yeah. And then the whole idea, even behind doing the book, was not really originally my idea. I would just make notes on everything, wherever I was, napkin envelopes and things, and I wanted to organize it. And then somehow I must have mentioned that to someone. And then it was a matter of people asking me when my book was going to be on. And said, there is no book. Wow. After a while, it seemed like a reality I had to face. And I spoke to Swami Satchidananda, and he said, It's time to update the book. You know, the language that you have is not the same language at that point, years and years ago. So that's how I got involved in doing it. I was really his inspiration, and I kept telling him that I didn't think we needed another book. His was fine. That's six times he got stern with me. He says, Just do the book well. I mean, on the back of the book, the first recommendation we get is from Swami satchananda, saying Patanjali was really with them when he wrote this book. I mean, that's a that's a really good compliment. Yeah, yeah. I had, at that time, I just printed out and put it in a three ring binder. It wasn't completely finished yet, yeah, but I just wanted to offer it to him and say, This is what I've been doing. And he paged through it and page through it, and quoted parts of the book, which they found, you know, wonderful. And then he made that quote, wow. He didn't say him. He said, patanja is really with you when you wrote this book. We felt it didn't fit, yeah, yeah. But he said that, and that was nothing could have been greater for me. Yes, I hear it. Oh man. What a what a compliment. That's incredible. You know, you've, you've had, well, let's see, how many years have you had, officially, as a yoga practitioner? Can you, can you pinpoint the first time yoga became apparent to you. I'll tell you the more important version, and there's another version that might say something about me. But getting into yoga as a path and a practice in a steady way probably started in around 1973 or 1974 so it's about 50 years. Yeah. And before that, when I was much younger in my teens, there was a show Richard hittleman doing asanas. I've heard about this. I've never seen any of the footage from it, but so I would get in the morning, it was on a TV, and he would have two models do the asanas, and I would copy that. And what I loved is, at the end, he always had a meditation, and that really somehow spoke to me even more than the asanas. For me to was a peek into something special and subtle, and at the same time, something very deep and genuine about the practice, so that it was that which lasted, you know, maybe six months, then the wasteland things that we do when we're teens, yeah, Yeah. Did you have exposure to philosophical and or religious idea ideas as a child and or teenager, I think I was brought up Roman Catholic, and when I was really young, that to me, that's a real. Was a reality. You know, Jesus was still accessible through prayer and through works, and at a certain point must have been the confirmation. I think you're 12 or 13 years old. I had a really, I think, important but disturbing experience. You go. We had four years of classes, which I didn't attend because my father didn't want to drive me to the church, and I was happy to just go out and play baseball with my friends. And yes, so anyway, right at the end, we go into the church itself, and there's a rehearsal because there's a bishop. And he's supposed to ask you questions and all. And the first thing he said was, the first thing we're supposed to learn is who made me? God made me. This was the one that got me in trouble. Why did God make you? God made you because He loves you. That in the vernacular of the day, it blew my mind. I said, I'm sitting here and I'm looking at this giant crucifix, and I'm looking and saying, How can I love you? You don't know you? Yeah? And I just started weeping, yeah. I felt awful. I just couldn't I couldn't justify and find, how can I love someone I don't know. And then I became very agnostic for a number of years, until I saw Swami Satan Ananda and say, Oh yeah, this is something that could be known. This is something to be experiencing. That's when I got serious. And from then on, from around 1973 or so, it's been the center of my life. Amazing story I love that. Do you feel like he brought this sort of connection of understanding, where it felt real versus disjointed and or far removed from from possibility? Yeah, there was the love that he exuded his incredible sense of humor. I mean, you go to a lecture, a two hour lecture, and you spend 50% of the time laughing at his jokes, but they all had it like a message too. Yeah, yeah. And first time I saw him in person, this is an interesting to me. It's an interesting story. Before I saw in person, there's a very powerful moment that I that I heard with him. I was painting my bedroom, and it was late at night, and everything got delayed, and it was somewhere around nine or 10 at night, I'm painting and painting. And at that time, there was a radio station, WPLJ, I think it was played rock and roll. And I was a musician then, so I was listening to the music. And then at a certain time, this was a Sunday night, they stopped the music, and it became a talk show, yeah, so I didn't know that. Anyway, I turned on the radio. I'm painting with the roller and what the first thing I hear is a young man's voice is the first words I heard from him. He said to someone at that time I didn't know who said, If you don't give me a reason to live tonight, I'm going to kill myself. Wow, wow. And there was no sense of like that. He was like, putting it up, because you could hear it in his voice. It was trembling, clearly fighting back tears. And I stopped with painting, and I was sitting there, holding the roller, sitting in a chair, and I couldn't, I couldn't turn away from this man with an Indian accent. Turned out to be good. Wow. I don't remember what he said now, yeah, but I was in tears. Wow. At the end of like, five or 10 minutes of talking by him, this young man said, I think I have a reason to live. Wow. Fortunately, he lived in Manhattan and could go to the Integra Yoga Institute there to delve into the teachings. Amazing. That was a first real impression of who dies. Who is this in God, and this is before you actually met him in person. So you heard this through the and you hadn't heard of him prior to this. You're just painting and listening to music. And here comes this yoga teacher. This this spiritual master. Oh, man, that's an interesting yeah, who is that guy? And then it just fell away for a few years. Then when I got back into yoga, there was a program at in New York City. I forget the name of the church. And I've been into yoga for a while, like six months or so, and doing asanas and meditation, and I wanted, I was really attracted to what I heard from him, and he gave a wonderful talk. But the this is a little hard to put into words, but it's, it's the essence of what really kept me into yoga. At the end of the program, number of people went up to the stage where he was and there was this, I only can think of calling it one thing, a ballet. People would give him often, like a banana or an apple or something, and they would offer it to him. He's leaning forward, he's up high, and they're reaching up, and he would take it, and then he would immediately give it to someone else, then another person. And it was such an ease and flow. And I saw the love they had for him, the respect they had for him. I couldn't I couldn't turn away for. Of it. And I came with these other people. I said, Come on, we have to go. And I I said, I can't, I can't. I had to stay. There was something in that, an offering that was accepted with such care and love, and then cost passed on to someone else. And I thought, this is the yogic path. You've gained something, but you give Yeah, yeah, that's serious answer that program. That's when you really kind of knew I want to dig in on this Yeah, and so I I'm picking up on the fact that you you recognized early that you gravitated toward the philosophy or toward the teachings that you liked, the poses that was neat. But then the the meditation that was given at the was it hittleman On his on his show, on his show, he would do little meditation at the end of each program. What was the transition then, from this point of meeting such an Ananda, what did it? How did your practice unfold in relation to your development of your yoga practice? Did you start diving head in, then into yoga philosophy and investigating different texts, or was it more that you? How did what did that? How did he end up teaching you. I mean, there were a couple of things. I lived in New Brunswick, New Jersey, home of Rutgers University. And I was getting involved at that point in just seeing a flyer on a tree or something said, free yoga classes, integral yoga club. So I said, this is great. I can go at once a week and for free, and take the class and to get into the Yas in his own I got very friendly with the teachers. There were two teachers. Both were disciples of Swami Satya nada, so they helped me answer a lot of my questions. And that's when it started getting really more regular for me. And I had someone to, you know, the short story is one of them. Name was Nataraj. He recognized my like zeal. Who was which is really, I was in high gear. He said. He says, Look, anytime you have a question, anytime you could call me, I took it seriously. I'd be reading these books. Oh yeah, one time I called him at 230 in the morning. Oh man, I'm sorry, but is this really? Did you mean? He said, Yes. He came over to my apartment, wow. And I said, I don't understand this. And it seems to, I don't remember what the questions were, but it seems like there's another teaching that contradicted it, contradicted it a bit. So that was a big help to me to have these senior people. Yes, it's like guides for me. And I really, I learned a lot from them. And really seeing, seeing Gurudev in person, towards again, that how he treated people, made me think like, you know, I want to everybody wants to be happy and have a meaningful life. And before getting involved with yoga on that level with his guidance, I didn't see how you could have that. I could see the pain. I could see that, you know, that could see happy things too. It wasn't like I wasn't depressed, but I wanted life to have meaning. I wanted to believe in the Jesus that was on the cross, yes, spiritual being. And here was someone who had, at least for me, exuded that kind of care, that kind of love. And that's really how I got got involved more and more with him when, especially when his book came out. But when I got involved, there was no book. There were little pamphlets that they had at the centers. Interesting, because you there probably wasn't there was so at that time period, there was no access to a a Yoga Sutras of Patanjali. It was there was one book called How to know God, which is not, it was a suture book by Christopher issue, would I think was in Swami prabhavananda. Those two people did this book, and I read that, and that was, that was helpful. But when I went to get it, I read about it somewhere, and it was a bookstore in New Brunswick, and I went in there and I said, I went this book. He said, What kind of a book is? I said, What's a Yoga Book? He took me, brought me to the section of cookbooks. Thought you said, yogurt. Oh my gosh, that is we don't know where to put these books. That was so unknown, in a way. So unknown. Oh my gosh. For everyone joking off, that's funny. That reminds me of a time where, when my wife and I were opening up our yoga studio, here we were inside painting, and some guy walks by and he goes a yogurt shop. You guys are gonna have yogurt? And we were like, Oh, I'm sorry to disappoint you, but it's gonna be yoga. And he just like, was like, that's not what I want. And he took off, and I thought, oh, no, we got a big hill to climb here. But that's so funny. I love hearing that story. I mean, I like the fact that you're bringing attention to the reality with which the amount of information we have access to now and with the ease with which we have access but in that time period, it was totally different. And so I'm so curious to hear how this evolved for you did when? When, when Swami satananda Did his commentary on the yoga sutras. Were you with him when he was doing that? What? What were you aware that he was writing this commentary, and I was aware of it. There was no book then, you know, you little cassette tapes who had parts of talks that we had. We had that and, yeah, there was the book came years later. But that also in a similar way, if I could backtrack a little bit earlier on, please, a really important feature of his teachings, I think, motivated me. And it started with a book from another spiritual group, which I won't name, and it was very it was all about meditation, and very intense, very thick, but pretty much, I'm not exaggerating, almost every page this author said, and this can only be achieved by and then their brand, this can only be achieved by. Got it, I started getting depressed. And didn't have that relationship with Guru Dev, yeah, where it was, yeah. And I was asked my my wife asked me to go to Barnes and Nobles in Manhattan to buy some books she needed for class. So I thought they might have some books on yoga. And they did. And I wanted something deeply, you know, intellectual and filled with ideas. And I went through one book after another, and they usually would have a picture of the author. None of them looked very happy. And all the way at the bottom, on the bottom shelf, I picked up this book this before I saw and here's this band with the flowing orange robes, and the wind is blowing in his hair, and he's on top of a mountain. There's clouds all around him, and he has the most amazing happy smile. But it was a biography, biography, but I kept picking it up, and finally I said, I have to, I have to get this. And I got home that night, and I spent, well, I don't know how many hours from probably around supper time until the next morning, reading the book, because a part of it, one of the strong things was the interfaith side of the teachings truth is one, pairs are many. And that really spoke to my heart, too. I hear you. I hear that. Well, which book was this? Of his book? It was, it's his biography, Apostle of peace. Is what they rewrote it. Now it's called apostle of peace. This. This is such an anonymous biography, Yeah, amazing. So you oh so now you have been able to read this before actually meeting him as well. You heard the radio. You heard the radio story. You're at the bookstore. You see the picture of him, or this book from him. Oh, man, that's cool. All right, I hear, yeah, it's a nice biography, because there's the biographical information interspersed with quotes from him that are pertinent. So you're getting the teaching in these nice little chunks, nice that go on with the assist experiences in his life. I'll definitely check it out. I do not have that one. Thank you for telling me. Yeah, it's a nice read. You know, it's really, it's not like real technical, yeah, but it says a lot about how a human being can experience what we're all looking for, you know, to have a life with meaning, a life that has that we perceive our life as having some value, and that, as he always says, life is for fun. Life is for fun. We should really have joy in life, and yoga is one of the ways to attain that. So, yeah, the biography is something that I would recommend. Very cool. I'll definitely read that. And I like the fact that you're pointing out that coming across a tradition that says the only way you'll achieve. This is through us. That's an interesting element in yoga. Surely, since then, you've come across that a lot more than just that. Has that always been a deterrent for you? Has that been a little bit of a once you come across that type of idea that my way is the fastest and the most effective way, and don't mess with anybody else's way. My way is the quickest, the quickest way to to liberation or enlightenment. Have you always seen that as a little bit of a trickery, in a sense, yeah, it's, it's still here, I think, like, I mean, there's certainly potential for egoistic motives that kind of blind you to certain realities. And I think there's also the brand people this is a way to make money saying, like, you know, we have this one simple way to do this, and it might be a wonderful way, by the way, not criticizing, necessarily that understood. But like I said, for me, I was surprised, and I was I don't tend, I never tended towards depression. If I was something got me off the kilter, it was anger. I would be I would get angry so. But I was reading this one book that's about three quarters the way through, I was getting depressed. Like, seriously depressed, yeah? Like, I might be that guy calling up on the radio station next saying, If you don't give me a reason, yeah, for that. It was like, yes, yes. I think part of it is maybe not a clear understanding of how important wisdom and knowledge have to be passed down from person to person. Good point, not person to videos. I mean, all those have a place. They're essential, but at some point, there's a quote I just read. It was a Tibetan Buddhist master that wisdom is not never self evident. It has to be repealed or revealed. That just just a superficial, you know, look at it isn't that isn't going to do it. It has to be revealed. And that means there has to be an interaction with someone who maybe knows a little more of whatever it is you're interested in. And I think yoga and all spiritual paths flourish most when it's based on an apprentice student relationship. Dude, yeah, I agree. I definitely see the distinction between these two methods of transmission. What? What medium Do you currently work with? Do you do one on one mentorship as well as larger group teaching? Yeah, we have, I mean, we have programs where people come to, don't get really close, but they come to. We have every Friday night, we have a SATs on different subjects and different things that we do, and guest speakers. So that could be anything, but there are a number of people, probably 3040 students, who are initiates into our style of yoga. And then there's a lot of individual things, you know, problems come up. And it's getting to the point now what some of our teachers have been 18 years with us, wow. So now it's like they could see that person, yes, like, I'm really interested in passing this on. I don't want it to be all on me. So now it's like, you know, my focus is more and more like, what can I do to prepare you for when I'm no longer available? Which, you know, it could sound grisly, but it's important. I hear you. That's cool, that you're looking forward like that. I appreciate that what was the catalyst and or time that you were transitioning from being a student to taking on the role of being a teacher? I mean, early on with the Integra Yoga I was asked to teach. I didn't know, when I was in grade school, you had report cards and have like, I don't know if they still do it, but there'd be a thing on like behavior. Yes, every every marking period Am I get my card. Yeah, and it would always say, he never talks so quiet. So I think it was I was like saving it up. I didn't know that at the time when I got into Guru Yoga. I don't know how or why it happened. I was asked more and more often to give talks. Then Guru Dev Satchitananda asked me to be part of teacher training. So I was doing teacher training, one of the main teachers for the 10 day retreats we would have once a year. So I was getting experience that way. And at one point, I don't know what year would have been, 1987 maybe he asked me to move to Virginia Satchidananda ashram, which I did, left New Brunswick, went to Virginia, and I was still teaching then. Then he had me become, I think it was vice president, administrator. That's that was my title at such a Genda ashram. And then through a number of things that are particularly pertinent. It was important for me and my wife to come back to New Jersey, which he was actually fine with. He understood why. And he said, Yeah, go and do that. And I was actually going to acupuncture school. I saw, I read that you're in acupuncturist as well. Yeah, I haven't been practicing in a while because of the teaching, but I came and did that. And then it started where I would give a talk, and people started wanting to be more and more with me. And it started happening where people said, Well, I see you as like a guru for me. And I said, No, he was keeping track, track of it. And said, for six years, you said, No, everything. You're constantly being yesterday and saying, no, no, no. And then I remember what, what Gurudev once said to me. He said, If someone sees something beautiful you've developed in you don't disturb that. It's their vision that's causing they are seeing it. It's not you as the teacher, in a way, it's the student's ability to see something in the teacher, like I saw in him, something that attracted them, and so that became the beginning of yoga life society. It was never my intention to do that, but they were these initial group of students really wanted to have something of their own. I'm still teaching the same thing I taught Guru Dev. I'm still, you know, an integral yoga minister, but we have yoga life ministers, and really it's just a lineage, yeah. So I understand. I understand. Can you explain the title your reverend? Jagannath, where does and how does the title Reverend come in? It's kind of my fault. Of course, in the intra group yoga, we had Sanyasi Swamis monastics, and I saw the benefit of that kind of formal commitment, of course, the commitment more or less like the typical monk or nun, poverty, celibacy, obedience, although it's a little bit different the way it's presented in yoga. And you know, I was very close to know them. I was working with him side by side for years, and I saw the power of a formal commitment in a way, like letting letting your mind know to the roots. This is serious. I'm doing this. Yeah, I'm not backing. I want to serve all in. Yeah, it's all in but then I started thinking. I said, What I know all these householders that are just as connected and real about this. So I wrote a letter to Swami Satchidananda at one point. Said, No, this one step back, my mother had something inadvertently to do with this. I was telling her about Gurudev. My mother was born in Italy. She was a war bride. Me a load of bride. And she was asking me about go to death. And I was feeling so tortured, trying to put it in a way that she would understand and accept it. And she was one point she was thinking, thinking, come follow me. She went up in the bedroom, opened up a dress and drawer, and she pulled out this information with Saint Francis on it. She says, oh, it's the Third Order of Saint Francis. You have the poor clears for the women and the friars for the. The men, but then you have for householders, the Third Order of Saint Francis. So that was in my head, putting it back now into Integra yoga. I thought maybe that would be appropriate for it for us as well. I wrote a letter. And those days it was all slow like that, a letter, thank you for reminding us, because I love that time period, but thank you. I agree with you. I hear you. Yeah, it was a whole different world then, yeah, he wrote back to me and saying, I think this almost his exact words is, I've been thinking of this for a long time, just waiting for someone to come forward. Let's do it. And it was only a couple of months. Let's do it in July that year, Guru celebrating the teacher. Yes, we can have our own ministry. And that's how it started. We weren't sure that you'd be called ministers or be something else, but, you know, he, along with other people, decided, let's keep it in a way that people can relate to. So it's, we're it's an interfaith yoga ministry. Very cool. I did not know that I was so curious about that 1980 that was, huh, that's what. That makes a lot of sense, too, to have a intermediary role and maybe task to play, like you said, for the where, where for the householders. That, yeah, that allows you to be a householder, but also take maybe a more formal, formal role. Is that? How you see being able to be a reverend within this yoga school allows for you to be kind of like a sannyasin, kind of like a renunciate, but but on the role of with four householders, yeah, yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. It's, in fact, the the vow of the Minister is based on the vow from the sannyasins. But instead of, like poverty, it's like non attachment to those things. So it's, you know, you're not, you're not making a vow of celibacy if you're a married person. So it's, you know, shaped in a little different way, so that the essence of what that Mind and Life is about is the same. Yes, he would, he said they're married monks. That's how he would jokingly. Would say, this is not that much difference between the ministers in the sanyas. He said it's only a couple of things that are different, but essentially, you're like a married monk. And over the years, maybe a little bit surprising to me, how often our ministers are called on to do memorial services, weddings, baby, blessings, all those things in in groups of where people are not Yogis, you know, and can can see again, this goes back to the idea of the interfaith. You know, our logo has a yantra with all the different faith symbols around it, yes. And there was a time I was I was doing a wedding in Montreal, and the couple this insisted that it be done outside, and it was in the Laurentian mountains outside of Montreal, and I was setting up the altar outside, and I knew that the father of the groom hated the idea that I would be there, and he said he's really kind of a little bit violent guy. Want to talk to him? I said, No, after, because right now this is really getting me excited here to do this, this ceremony. Yeah. So I said, Okay, after and ceremony happens. My robe caught fire. We're up the tail of my robe, and it fell on the water by a candle, and it was on fire, and the person who's assisting me is waving Frank frantically. Why is she waving like that? She came with a bowl of water, and anyway, so afterwards, you know there's like the receiving line, right? You come people, Hello, how are you? Thank you. So this one little fellow comes up and he saw tears. He's in his 60s, he's all tears. And he said, Thank you so much. He said, I hated this because I'm in business. The guy said, and my partner's daughter. Got Married. Got married in the church, but the minister refused to look at her because it wasn't the same religion like literally, he said, would not, would not, would talk only to the male and not to the female, yeah, I got it. And he saw the entre with all the symbols, yeah? And he just fell in love with it, and he was very wealthy guy. He took me to his home to stay with me tonight. Stay with me tonight. The next morning, we're walking around outside his beautiful day, and other people were walking around, he would stop. Everyone says you should listen to what he said is one truth. When he passed, he was just completely changed just by having that service that's so cool. It is, yeah, like, of course, I'm feeling great because, like, yeah, they're getting it, yeah, yes. One Truth, many pairs when you're when your outfit caught on fire, though, did you have a moment of thinking this, this is not going how I had planned. Yeah? Well, yeah, this is not looking so good here. This guy's judging me. I'm catching on fire. Yeah? It seemed like it was going to be exciting. It was beautiful area. And the thing is, in this case, the brine insisted on outside. Oh yeah. They said, You know, it's pretty windy. It could be. She said, No, it has to be. Has to be. It's my dream. It's okay. You're flying all the flower petals rule. It was just a myth. And I couldn't, you know the altar was behind me, and it had slits up the side, so I'm talking. And then it rose in the air and fell on the candle. It was started burning. Oh my gosh. And this person was with me, who was just said, Yasi was like crouched down and waving furiously. And I'm thinking, why is she doing that? It never occurred to me. Then I turned my head and I see smoke and flames, and she picked up a bowl of water and threw it on my robe, and then we finished the program. Oh my gosh, that's all. And it sounds like you've been able to do weddings and different ceremonies. I'm curious, have you supported in the role of palliative care? Have you have you sat with any folks that are transitioning and or ready to pass? Has that? Has that come into your sphere at all? Yeah, there's been, there's been some of that. My wife, even worse, my wife is right now. She's retired, but she's a hospice nurse. Oh, wow. I have so much respect for hospice. Well, my mom passed away, and we called hospice, and I was blown away at the level of service that they they're angels, and that's where I thought, maybe with you, with with the realm of what you with you do, I bet that you've come into that sphere, but that's amazing that your wife did that. And what a path of humility. I noticed that she's a reverend as well, so she took the same vows that you have and you got, you both have been able to work together. This is incredible. Oh yeah, I've been with her 57 years. Oh yes, congratulations. That's yeah. I found the right way, and it's not going anywhere. This is it? Wow, yes, yes. One thing about the ceremonies is it maybe a bit of evidence, because it's not like lots and lots of these ceremonies, but it's fairly consistent that at a wedding or some other kind of program that you do that to be someone who's at least suspicious of what's going on, you know, and someone like me shows up with a robe and the hair and all that, which is just because I I'm too lazy to shave, I'm going to grow a beard. So there's always, like always, but usually there's some people that aren't very happy that you're there. But my experience is every ceremony had like a little miracle. One of the most moving was I was called by our New York Center. We need this woman, needs memorial service, needs someone to lead it. And the one who passed away was her brother. He was gay, he had AIDS, and said he would love into Guru Yoga. And asked that, can we do something for him? I said, Sure, we'll do it. But she said, The whole family is against you being there, wow, but this is what he wanted. I said, fine. Well, you know, I'm happy to go and do that. I'm up for the challenge. Yeah, yeah. I mean, because what he wanted. So, you know, yes, it was meaningful to him, yes. But I talked to her a bit because I said, I don't know this fellow. I said, Tell me about him a little bit. And the day before he passed, the two of them were singing old rock and roll songs. And then soon, a couple hours later, he passed away. And that image, to me was very beautiful. So when I did the service, I said I had to find that something, you had to say something about the person. I told them that story, and I said, it's like, I don't know if you knew about this. You know, swan song. You crazy people here, yes, but the the story is that swans are so beautiful, but they make the most ugly sound, except when they're passing, they make the most this is the story. I don't know if it's true. I didn't know that. Yeah, that's cool. And when they when they when they're passing, it's the most beautiful sound on the planet. Yeah, that's why he called a swan song. It always happens at the end of something that makes sense. So I don't remember his name, you know, I said, and this is what happened, and that was his swan song. And afterwards, his mother came up to me, and she put a hug on me that was like shown and other. It's always like, not everybody. It's not like, you know, weird Hollywood or everybody suddenly, is it? But there's almost always one or two people that this message that we have in yoga reaches them. Yeah, there's something about its purity, its power, if we live by it. I'm sure you said that even with Margo bonded, he lives, it gives him that wonderful power, yes, change people's lives. That's yoga. To me, that is amazing. Reverend jagnath, I really appreciate that perspective, I agree with you, getting right down to the essence. And you kind of made mention of that in relation to your your time with the teaching and the practice over so long, like when you were talking about the Yoga Sutras, that you feel like, okay, yeah, there is some maybe confusion here and difficulty, but that you're able to kind of bring it down to its essence and to its core, and which sounds to me like what you are explaining in relation to these ceremonies, where, and if it only, if it's only one person like and like, the fact there's like, hey, it's not the whole group. It's not like that everybody comes up. But if you can, if one person has that type, that type of connection, then I feel like that's probably what's keeping you going too, right? Is that, would you say that's one of the big sparks in fuel that's keeping you engaged in the yoga community for 50 plus years now that that's a huge inspiration to me, both you and Margo bond do. I can't tell you how much like I really just want to do, I want to follow in your, in both of your guys's footsteps, and just keep going here. So it's, it's encouraging to to have an elder that's, that's that's focused on this and following through and keeping it going. And when I got a chance to speak with you prior, and I've been thinking about this over the past couple days, because I thought, well, maybe I think I heard him right, and maybe I misunderstood, but maybe I did hear you right. I said something. I asked you if, if there was any, if you had any sites on retirement, and I think you said, as long as there's books, I'll never retire. Is that what you said? Can't remember what I said, but yeah, it made me think that, like, as long as there's food for you, fuel for you, to keep digesting and like information and just this, like passion for this, that there will never be such a thing as retirement. So I don't know if I got that right, but did I? Did I touch upon some sort long Is there something I can do? I'll do it. Yeah. I think one of my motives in that, but we call it the purple book, the purple book that to try to find the language of the sutras, that a language that is a more updated, you know, just a couple of words, not like, you know, it won't hit you over the head, but like to make the sutra itself. I didn't want it to be just that. You had to leave lean on the commentary, that just reading the sutra becomes a little more meaningful. So I didn't try to keep it like word for word. Sometimes one word in Sanskrit turns out to be like three words in English, because I wanted to see one thing from different angles, yes, which is really important to me that you take. A word like some veganum, which is one of my favorite words. I just just love the way it sounds. But usually it's translated as something like fervor, like you, the results are near in yoga when you practice with fervor, the basic idea but the word some veganum, it's not just fervor, like in intensity. If you look at in a dictionary, it means, like, explosion, you know, it's like, there's this feeling of like thrust and power. And the sutra just before that has another word, dacara, that also gets translated as like fervor, but it's different. Satkara is not the same as spent some big Saqqara. One, one of the meanings of it is hospitality. So now I'm looking at Patanjali saying there's two different ways of looking at fervor. One is seeing the beauty of yoga and the teachings, and that is your inspiration is you're invited in right hospitality. The sutras are inviting you, and then you go a couple sutures later, and now there's explosions, yes, and I think that's on purpose. I think that potentially has that that gradation, and I don't see it anywhere else. But to me, I look at the different translations, it's not just academic. I have to feel some connection to it. It has some reality to me, even if it's not perfect, and it's not the only way, for sure, has to be something that I can really feel connected to and then be able to maybe transmit a little bit of it. So that kind of thing, in doing the books I love, thinking about the connection of hospitality and explosive thrust forwardness. Yeah, that it would start from service and humility, and it could turn into or eventuate as this explosion, so to speak, of bliss or connection. How do you how do you relate to it? And when we talk about words like Samadhi, and if there's this idea of like an eventuation toward bliss or Samadhi, what is your interpretation? Now, after having years to mull over this and meditate on it. Yeah, I go through different periods of time where certain sutras just like, Oh, I love that sutra. And I love just spending time with it, like person one, that I think might be a backdoor way of addressing your question is, i is, this is sutra about property, right, material universe, and it says that property gives us knowledge so that we can become enlightened, right? It's because we get this knowledge from it's a teacher liberation comes from dealing with nature. What I can't think of the word right now in Sanskrit, but the translation of it, that property is something worthwhile and beautiful. The word in Sanskrit still not coming to me, but word in Sanskrit as as its translation, something that's worthwhile and beautiful. So now there's a tendency, at least I found, among very ardent students of yoga, to view the material universe as something you have to overcome. And I can see the way that you know it's not like it's wrong, but that's the image. And I see that translation that talks about worthwhile and beautiful because it gives us experiences that lead to liberation. I see that as something gorgeous, and it reminds me of St Francis, this this beauty of nature, that's there, that's he was like that. He never thought that God appeared his nature. It wasn't in his philosophy, but that everything in nature was God sending a message, and it's a hopeful message, and it's a supporting message, and it's something that protect, yes, yeah, I love that. That is a really great way to look at it. Reverend Jagannath, Have you, have you explored multiple other texts, really universe? Oh my gosh, I think what happened, Reverend Jagannath, is we got a little glitch. Where, where the Zoom kind of glitched, and I didn't see you moving. And I thought, oh, did I lose him? So I started talking, and then, and then you came back in. So I really apologize there. I did follow you along the lines of France, the French St Francis of Assisi, and this appreciation for nature and the way that that can produce a connection like this, as opposed to the yogi moving beyond nature, or like, let me, let me try to put that aside and put myself over here, in this place that I but I didn't hear your final statement. Would you be able to repeat it, there's a law. I can only say it once, and then the universe didn't want me to hear it. I guess I Yeah, it's, I think it's the point of that to me, is to not get into seeing or any of nature as an obstacle or an oppositional way that it's there, it's beautiful. We can learn from it, and we should learn to appreciate it, because it's nature, it's the universe, yes, and it's not to be conquered. It's so clear to me, the sutures, it's so clear. It gives you experiences and liberation. Experiences liberation. It's your friend. Yeah, we have issues with it, right, the parts of nature that are difficult for us, but none of it is really opposition. Oppositional. Is that a word? Yeah? Yeah. Oppositional, all of it is should be seen as this incredible encyclopedia that nature is, and it's there to teach and to guide and to bring us to pure spirit. Yes, nature, thank you for for following that idea through I did. I did not hear you. End it like that. Thank you. Do you? Sometimes people could will critique yoga sutures as being a dualistic philosophy, and maybe from say Tantra literature, will say Our philosophy is non dual. But I, from what you just said, it sounds to me like you're almost now interpreting the sutras as as a an element of non dualism. In this in this idea of touching the ground and feeling the earth as that's one of the places we can really find liberation, is through this experience of living, does? Does that resonate with you? Yeah, yeah, I think it does. Actually, it was interesting because I've been studying up more on the this whole thing, like the I'd like to Vedanta and Sankhya and Sankhya yoga, which is another thing, and I think ultimately they're all valid. We're just trying to find a way of establishing a relationship that makes sense in reality. And like, let me get involved in that relationship, whether it's non dual or, like, soccer, where you have the two parts, and yoga, which has the third part with the swara right, the god level. If it gets me to understand, have an understanding, even we know that isn't going to be exact. I want to have a relationship with with the universe, with nature, with consciousness. I want to understand, what is consciousness? But how does that happen? I mean, the simplest thing is, like, how do I know that it's me? I close my eyes, say, That's me. What did I just see? What was that I'm looking there's nothing but dark. But I know it's me. You know, any philosophy that that gets me to to embrace and ponder and dance with all the aspects of creation and and of self with small s and capital S both. Yes, that's a fine philosophy for me. I hear ya Yes. And interestingly enough, Reverend jognath, when we started, for those of you that are listening. We're also recording this now. This on our YouTube channel. When we started the we're on the set. You're on the East Coast. I'm on the East Coast. I'm a lot further south here in Florida. You're up in New Jersey. It's already getting dark there. Here, we still have some sun. And when we started it was it was a lot brighter behind you, but now you're illuminated because the the it's dark behind you and the computer screen is like shedding all this light on you. So slowly, through this conversation, you've become more illuminated. I didn't see this. Yeah, right, that's the image of me. Whatever, right coming back to that question of like, who am I? And what is consciousness? And it's becoming clear. I can see you a lot clearer now, over this one hour, you've become more much more clear to me. Oh man, well, I'm so thankful Reverend John ganath for this opportunity. And what I'm so excited about is, you know, I've been able to have Margo Bandu, and now you and then our next episode is an interview with the three of us together. I get to talk to both of you together, which I'm so excited for everybody to have a chance to hear. And again, I'm so grateful. Every morning I'm waking up and I'm writing in my gratitude journal, you know, three things that I'm grateful for, and this morning was I get to talk to Reverend Jagannath. So I feel really, you know, I've been excited all day for this, and I really enjoy this opportunity. I'm grateful. Thank you. Thank you. May all the blessings flow to you always. Thank you so much. Well, I look forward to our next session, and I wish you a wonderful evening. You too. You too. Thank you. Todd, thank you so thank you. Shanti, you native yoga Todd cast is produced by myself. The theme music is dreamed up by Bryce Allen. If you like this show, let me know if there's room for improvement. I want to hear that too. We are curious to know what you think and what you want more of what I can improve. And if you have ideas for future guests or topics, please send us your thoughts to info at Native yoga center. You can find us at Native yoga center.com, and hey, if you did like this episode, share it with your friends. Rate it and review and join us next time you.