Jessica Hwang - Unveiling Yoga's Hidden Potential for Personal Growth

Jessica Hwang is a dedicated career transition coach with a background in corporate finance. She is the founder of Jessica Hwang Coaching, where she assists individuals in making the leap from secure corporate positions to independent, passion-driven careers. Jessica is also a yoga teacher and hosts her podcast "Permission to Flow," formerly known as "A Way of Thinking." Her expertise lies in leveraging personal growth, yoga principles, and her experiences from the corporate world to guide others towards fulfilling careers.

Visit Jessica: http://jessicahwangcoaching.com/
Listen to podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/permission-to-flow/id1622215177

Key Takeaways:

• Career Transition Strategy: It's vital to create a steady financial foundation and consider gradual steps rather than a sudden leap when transitioning from a corporate job to independent work.
• The Role of Self-Belief: Cultivating self-belief through personal growth, support systems, and recognizing past achievements is crucial for success.
• Yoga's Impact: Yoga can provide the mental clarity and resilience needed to navigate significant life changes.
• Community and Support: Surrounding oneself with a supportive community and professionals like coaches and therapists can make the transition smoother.

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Chapters

• 0:33 Career Transitions and Pursuing Passion with Jessica Hwang
• 3:34 The Journey of Rebranding a Podcast and Embracing Solo Episodes
• 7:56 From Corporate Finance to Independent Coaching and Podcasting
• 16:41 Transforming Life Through Yoga with Dharma Mittra
• 26:31 Transitioning from Corporate Life to Independent Employment Success
• 33:34 Redefining Job Security in Modern Times
• 39:32 Building Self-Belief Through Transition and Strong Work Ethic
• 43:05 Building Self-Belief Through Support and Positive Evidence
• 45:35 The Fear and Courage of Sharing Personal Stories
• 49:03 The Importance of Self-Realization and Helping Others
• 1:00:55 Embracing Curiosity and Playfulness in Life

Transcript

0:33

Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast, so happy you are here. My goal with this channel is to bring inspirational speakers to the mic in the field of yoga, massage, bodywork and beyond. Follow us at @nativeyoga and check us out at nativeyogacenter.com. All right, let's begin. Hello and welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast. My name is Todd McLaughlin today. Jessica Hwang. Jessica is a career transition coach. She has a website, jessicahwangcoaching.com. FInd her on Instagram. Handle at@jessicahwangcoaching. She has her own podcast show. It is called A Way of Thinking and soon to transition to Permission to Flow. Jessica has done an amazing job of believing in herself, working really hard in the corporate world in transition to now, coaching and helping others achieve their dreams, goals, aspirations. And Jessica is really interested in helping those of us that have a career path or choice that maybe we want to shift toward pursuing their passion. Pursuing what makes us feel alive, awake, real and excited about life, and so Jessica is here to help us. And with that being said, this has been a really fun project, because Jessica and I decided to podcast each other. In the world of podcasting, we only want to get better. We want to improve. And the process of podcasting another podcaster and reciprocating is a great way to receive feedback and to help promote one another and also just celebrate this wonderful medium of conversation. Our goal, our dream, is to help you see a little clearer and to feel some enthusiasm and excitement. So if you get a little glimmer of that, maybe along the way here, then our job is done. Drop the mic. All right. Thank you, Jessica, this is so much fun, and I really am happy you are here listening. Thank you. Let's begin. I'm so happy to have this opportunity to meet and speak with Jessica Hwang. Jessica, thank you so much for joining me today, and I'm excited to hear about what gets you inspired to coach people to move from corporate careers to their dream jobs and before we dive in on that subject. Can you tell me a little bit about you? Because you have your own podcast channel that was formerly known as A Way of Thinking and now moving into being called Permission to Flow. What gets you excited about podcasting? Well, first off, thank you so much for the opportunity to talk with you. Todd. I'm so excited to be on your show. So it's interesting. You know, podcasting is something that I don't think I ever thought I would get into, and then it just became this thing that now I absolutely love podcasting. And you put two podcasters in a room, and I think we could talk endlessly, is what we were already experiencing before we hit record. But for me, it's really that I love podcasting because it allows me to have beautiful, deep conversations with guests, and be able to really connect with people and know that someone else is going to get to benefit from these conversations. And it's like I already feel the impact of my on myself, of being able to have these conversations, but then knowing that someone else will is just such a beautiful gift, and it's interesting. Now I'm actually moving towards doing more solo episodes and and I think I'm inviting that same kind of idea where it's this ability, where podcasting is so funny you you have no idea who's really listening, right? You don't know they're all over the world. They're all over the place. You have no real idea. But I think it's grounding yourself in this feeling of someone's benefiting from these words that we're speaking, someone's benefiting from from someone needs to hear what I'm saying or what this guest is saying. Yeah, and that that really keeps me going. With that space that's so cool. Can you tell me a little bit about what your ideas behind doing solo episodes? So for me, you know, I'm shifting, you know, you mentioned that I'm rebranding my podcast to be permission to flow. And the thing is that I, when I started my podcast, it's been this journey. And I think when I first started it, it was, oh, I wanted to share this journey that I had been on and all these learnings I had. And then I got scared about it, and I was like, no, no, I'll just get all these guests on and share other people's journeys and do that. And and I loved that. And now it's, I'm kind of full circling back around where I am realizing, you know, I've spent so much time learning, growing into my own profession, becoming a coach, you know, now, teaching yoga, studying with Dharma, so many things that I'm like, I want to bring more of those learnings to people from my own headspace. So now it's going to be a combination of the two. That's so cool. So do you write down a couple of key points that you want to hit, push the record button and just go for it, or are you writing something out and reading the script in the audio format? How organized are you with this and how much free flow Do you try to put into it. I've always been such a free flow person, so I have been making myself like, have a little more structure. Because I think that, yeah, I think it's, it's good to have kind of a balance between the two, right? I think that creativity actually blossoms beautifully in the space of structure. And so for me, it's, I like to jot out a couple key points I want to highlight, and it's just like, these are my key things. And then I just go and I think that that allows me the space to really speak freely and just let it flow out of me, instead of having it all like word by word by word. Yeah, yeah, very cool. Well, I can't wait to listen to more of those episodes. I've had a very similar sort of trajectory where same same I thought, Okay, let me just talk about my own personal experience. And then I started interviewing, and I've been only interviewing, and I've been toying more with the idea of what you're speaking about just to use as a way to tell your own stories. So that's really cool. I appreciate hearing that that and that I'm not I'm not alone. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I look forward to hearing your solo episodes in the future, too. Thank you. I appreciate it. Can you tell me a little bit about I know that you coach people to move from corporate jobs into independent work. And so I'm curious, what is your background, what was your trajectory in relation to your education and then your corporate life? Yeah, so I am someone who kind of follow the very traditional path, and, you know, I'm the child of immigrants. My parents moved here from Taiwan and to America, and so I was very much like, go and get a stable, steady job that's going to definitely pay the bills and take care of you and have good stability. So I ended up majoring in finance and then working in finance. So I spent a decade working in corporate finance, and it was, you know, I look at it and I'm like, it wasn't like, it was a terrible experience on the whole, right? It gave me so many great things. It allowed me a certain lifestyle. It gave me the ability to learn a lot of amazing skills that I still use today, and I'm very thankful for that time. But it also was a time where I felt like something was kind of missing from what I was doing, where I looked at, you know, I'm in these jobs, I I'm a good, hard worker, I know what I'm doing. It's it's giving me some sort of benefit, but something just felt like it wasn't enough for me, like I don't get to be my whole self at work. I don't get to kind of feel like there's meaning behind what I'm doing and and it was for a while, it was this, like, nagging kind of feeling in the background where I was like, I don't know what it is exactly, but I know something's not right, and I know I don't want to do this for the next 3040, years of my life. You know, there's a lot of time there to be spent, kind of dreading every day, feeling like I'm I'm having to drag myself to my office. And so for me, what happened was, I, I think it was a combination of things, you know, it was yoga, getting getting more and influenced seeing other people being able to do other types of work. But ultimately, what happened was, I burned out in my job, and I. Just quit. I'm out of here. I can't take it anymore route. And, you know, I love being able to help people not necessarily go that full like blast of leave everything behind and go in a different direction. But that's how it had to happen for me. And, you know, and I think sometimes it's like we have to walk the hard path so we can teach others to walk a little bit of an easier path, is how I look at it now, but it really was a I had to kind of burn it to the ground and rebuild from scratch. And that's what led me to starting my podcast. That's what led me to deciding to become a coach, and now wanting to help people and and helping people do the same thing, nice. When you took that, did you actually hand in your resignation at your job? I did nice. And then what was day one like after on your first day of I am I'm on my own. Did you have a little bit of savings to cushion a transition? And what was your plan at that time? Of like, what your how were you going to generate revenue in this new era that you going into? Yeah, so I thankfully did have quite a bit of savings at the time, which was what enabled me to be able to say, like, I'm going to quit my job without really knowing what's next. So that gave me that cushion space where I was like, Okay, I have enough saved that I can, you know, spend a little time to figure this out. And so I'm very thankful that I had done that really, you know, from my parents urgings of, like, you know, save your money, don't, you know, kind of have that wiggle room, not that they thought that that's what it was for, right? It was always going to be like, this is for your retirement, for, like, when you're 65 and older, but, you know, really thankful that I could use it at this moment. And to me, that is what money is for, is when you need it, right? It is, it is a tool. So when I It's funny, when I think back to that first day of not being in my job anymore, I mean, there was certainly a little bit of like, oh my god, what am I doing? But I think at that moment, I really didn't know what I was going to do next, and because I was had been burned out. I honestly, it was more about, how can I recalibrate? How can I get back to a place of having happiness again and having some joy? Because I think burnout really kind of sucks all that out of you, even when you're not at work. Yes, so, so it was really important to kind of come back to myself first and foremost. That makes sense. Are you in New York City? I am, and did you grow up there? I grew up in New Jersey, so not too far away, and you're still in the city, like in Manhattan. Yeah, cool. It's expensive in Manhattan, right? Very you're like, nodding your head like, yeah, uh, yeah, that's a given. Um, so have you given any thought about, like, what are your thoughts are in relation to where you live and pursuing your career? Did you weigh any options in terms of, should I move somewhere to pursue my dream. Should I stay here? Is there more opportunity for what you do if you live in New York than if you were to just work digitally from a remote location? What has your thoughts been a relation to all this? Yeah, I mean, it's it's definitely challenging, because New York City is a very expensive city. And you know, I definitely did weigh it out. I think for me, it's a little challenging, because, like my family, while I had grown up in New Jersey, they were no longer there. So it wasn't like I could just move back home, unfortunately. So it definitely took a lot of, like, managing it was like, I had to really look at my numbers. I had to really understand, like, how can I make this work in order to be able to still live the a decent lifestyle, right? So it's definitely not. It's something that you have to take into consideration when you're making that transition. You know, I think a lot of people it is. It might be moving back home if you're able to, it might be, you know, getting support of those around you, but it's, I think it's having that willingness to be like, exploring all of your options is really important. Because I think we, we tend to be like, Oh well, like, we think very, in very linear fashion, and in a lot of ways, and so it's important to really go like, what are the resources around me? How can I make this work? Great point. Are you so how long has this been? How long? How long ago was it that you quit or handed in your. Resignation to your finance job. My last day was actually three years ago as of like last a few days ago. Very cool. So you felt like three years to work independently. Have you been able to build your business to the point that you are feeling comfortable, or that you could survive or live off of your current work, or are you still in that transition phase of needing to kind of work off of savings as well? It's been a little bit of both. And, you know, I think, as a business owner, you can understand where it's like, it's definitely been a shift of that kind of fluctuating income and having to get a like, comfortable with that, but it's definitely, you know, I think it's, it's, I'm still growing and, well, I guess that's kind of endless when you're a business owner, but it's, yeah, it's definitely been a definite, a different mindset, I think, when you're shifting into that Space, compared to having that steady income of a regular job. Yeah, great point at what stage did yoga practice come into your life? So I actually started practicing yoga when I was 16 years old. Nice my Yeah, my mom brought me to my first yoga class when she was starting to get into it. That's so cool. Yeah, yeah. So I feel very fortunate because it's it's kind of been there with me for so long, but at the same time, I think for me, my yoga practice was this thing that I did because it gave me some sense of peace outside of my office job for a long time, and it wasn't until, probably, well, really, when I did like my first teacher training at Dharma yoga center in 2020 that it really became like the foundation to my life in a completely different way. That's so cool. Can you tell me a little bit about what it's like to practice with Dharma Mitra in New York. I mean, it's the biggest blessing. And I think I'm I feel incredibly lucky all the time to be around him and to be in his presence his I think I was saying this to you before we started recording, that he really is like the like a power source to so many of us, like he is the one that energizes us, like keeps us going and, and I, you know, it was interesting, because I recently went to London where he was doing an incredible 500 person immersion. And, and being there just made me so much more grateful for the time that I get to spend with him. I mean, dharma is 85 years old right now, and, and I think we have to remember that, you know, like everything is temporary. And, and I I really grounded myself in the fact of how fortunate I am that I get to spend so much time in his presence, that's so cool. Can you give me a little more insight into why do you think he's such a powerhouse? Like, what is it that attracts you to him when you're in His presence? Is there? Is it the community? Is it the Do do you feel like he just keeps it really simple, or does it because it's offers really advanced teaching, like, what or like, to what level do you feel like if you try to explain it? Because I know it's kind of hard to how, how could you or do you explain some of like, what that energy is that you feel when you're there. You know, it's interesting, because I think for for many of us, and myself included, what initially kind of sparks your interest in Dharma is, is the practice, right? Because it definitely I'd been practicing in New York City for a very long time, and there was nowhere that I found where you were learning all these advanced Asana poses, you know, it was just, it's par for the course that everyone's doing headstands. It's so normal that everyone's like, going into all these crazy inversions and all these wild poses. And so I think that's what really brings people in at the beginning, is just how powerful the asana practices. But I think what really sets it apart is how it really is not about the asana practice when you really start to learn from dharma. And you know, I see how at for dharma yoga center, it truly is grounded in compassion and and it breathes through everything that dharma is teaching us. And I see it in in the people that I meet who are Dharma yoga practitioners, you feel there's like this little spark in all of them where there's this true essence of. Of care and love towards all beings. And this ability where it's, like, I don't know, this genuine nature that that sits within all of us and and I think that there's this essence of, like, his teachings, it's because it's, it's giving us everything, right, like we're learning all the different elements. It is grounded in the eight limbs of yoga. And it really feels like, Okay, this is I'm getting to be in the presence of an enlightened being, like someone who has walked the path, who is guiding us, who his life is just filled with devotion to to guiding others. And I feel like that's in many ways, like, why I said, like he inspires me and so much of what I'm doing, because it's like I transformed my life to be in service of others, to be in Karma Yoga. And it's like to be able to bring that practice through your entire life, through your entire day, through your entire being. I feel like that's how he's teaching us, and that's why the training is life of a yogi. Like, how do you live the life of a yogi, not just on that mat, but in every single moment of your day? Nice. Jessica, that's cool. Good job. Sometimes it's hard to talk about, right? Like, to, like, really explain it. So that was really great. Do did you start teaching yoga right after you finished your teacher training with Dharma in 2020 I mean, obviously to start teacher training in 2020 is an interesting time to do it, especially if you're living in New York City like that was a pretty heavy period for everybody all over the world. So you came when did you graduate from that training? Did you do it? Let me back up. Was it virtual, I'm guessing, in New York. So yeah, it's interesting. It was actually the last in person training, and it happened in January, February of 2020, so it was literally weeks before everything shut down in New York. And so we were very lucky that we were all in person. It was a big group, and I remember it was like we were worried about the people going back to Asia, and then meanwhile, it hit us so much harder in New York. And so for me, the way that dharma works, the training, I mean, is that you have this one week intensive, and then from there you have kind of an internship where you need to teach and self practice and do all and write essays and so forth. And honestly, so for me, it was all kind of a blessing where I had to do that work while the pandemic was going on. So I actually took it upon myself to, like, teach my friends yoga while we're all stuck in lockdown and, you know, trapped inside our own little shelves. And it was like, I got to connect with my friends and give us this space where we could be grounded and come to the practice together. Very cool. Yeah, that's cool. And are you now that everything is open and running? Are you teaching yoga in in person? Or are you sticking to teaching online? So I teach in person at Dharma yoga center. So nice, yeah, what day? What days do you teach? I teach it on Sundays, at noon. Nice. What level class? It's an all level class. It's called charging practice. And I'm sure everyone's like, what does that mean to me? It's really, it's really getting to teach more of, like the Hatha style that dharma teaches. It's very similar to, like, the master class that he teaches. So I really love it, because it's not really a set. There's, there's like, multiple sequences. That gives you a little more flexibility with the with the practice. That's so cool. You know, our mutual friends, Andrew and Pam Jones, live near us here, and they started teaching a Dharma yoga class on Wednesdays here at 430 and I've been able to go and practice with them, and it's been super fun, and I really enjoy it. And it's first of all, thank you, Pam and Andrew for introducing me to you. Jessica. Thank you so much. And that's so cool to hear that you're able to teach at his center. That would be, that's an honor, right? To actually teach him, you know, like the hub of a for a community that's quite large around the world, that's that's got to feel pretty cool. Oh, it is beyond an honor to be able to teach there. It's, you know, I It's amazing to to be able to be on, on the podium that he teaches on, and be able to to teach, I imagine I'm he's teaching through me oftentimes. But it is truly a blessing. That's cool. So now you have a corporate job, you pursue your dream of being independently employed. You take the goal or direction of I'm going to help coach those that are also looking to do a similar thing. What do you think is some of the contributing factors? Actors that stands out or is needed for an individual to really take that leap. Because I know from leading yoga teacher trainings, we and, or, you know, running a studio, we see a lot of folks that get super excited about yoga and then have the dream of being a yoga teacher, and then it is challenging, and it's sometimes scary to make that jump, and you you did the due diligence of working really hard, preparing, saving, and you know, that's smart, because, like, I'm just kind of curious what type of advice you would offer us and or any person that's thinking of making the jump to being independently employed. So I guess let me go back to my the question I was originally heading toward is like, what are some of the key factors that you think you had to cultivate to make this a success for you now? Yeah, so, so many thoughts and feelings. Um, but I would start with, you know, it's, it really does come down to a lot of like, how much can you prepare and and one of the things that I, I like to think about is like, how can you think of it, not as a jump, right? Like, how can you ease yourself into things as much as you can. So, you know, I think for myself, it was a little bit more of a like, Oh, I'm but it, it was a process, right? And, and so as much as you can, if you, if you're able to stay where you are, if you aren't burned out, if you do have something where it's like you have a job, and you can start to build on the side. I do think that is the best thing to do, but, um, but to go back to your actual question, so for me, like, what helped me make the shift? I think it's in part, like creating a steady foundation for myself, right? Like creating that, having the savings, having that idea of, like, how long is this money going to help me? Like, what would I do if I want to have money? You know, like, having those, those kind of questions in mind, like, creating that kind of foundation financially is super important, and something that I definitely had to take into consideration in making this transition. I also think it's really a lot of it comes down to, like, believing in yourself, and I feel like this is something that is that really helped me in this process and and so to give you a little bit bit of a background, I didn't initially think I was going to make this full pivot, like I originally thought, I'll take some time off, and I'll probably go and Get another finance job. And I was even interviewing for other finance jobs at the time, and while I was exploring other options. And so to me, it's a lot of like, releasing yourself of like, the the fixed mindset of like, this is all I can do, because I think that we can get in this trapping of like. Well, I've studied for this. I've been working in this, and this is the one thing I'm good at, is the mentality that we can get stuck in. And I certainly was in that space. And instead, it was kind of giving myself the freedom of going What else could be out there and and also coming home to, like, what other skills do I have? Because for me, it was I, for a very long time, I knew that there was this thing about me where I was, like in my corporate job, I was always such a a relationship builder, and, you know, someone that I loved really just getting to know my my my coworkers and building deep relationships with them, and and I always had this thing where, like, I just felt like I had this unique skill of holding space for people, and they would, you know, naturally want to tell me things or confiding the in me and get advice from me in a way that, you know, I don't think everyone does. And yet, for corporate, like, they couldn't care less about that element of my personality. You know, it was just, like, figure out the numbers and get on with it, right? Like, why do I not have my numbers? Like, who cares if you're talking with people and and so it was really being that these unique talents of mine could go to something greater, right? And so it was finding like there's the spark, like there's these little things about myself that I think are really special, and what if I could do more of those things because of a bit of what led me on this path was seeing myself, telling people about my journey, telling them how I left my job and seeing it inspire other people to do the same and and that those so these little like nuggets, I was kind of like collecting them as data, of like, what are these other pieces of of myself that I'm not tapping into, that I actually, I think are actually kind of amazing. Amazing, and so I really grounded myself in seeing those skills of myself and and really believing like I am such a hard worker, I've worked so hard and I don't even like what I'm doing. Like, what if I took all that energy that I put behind things I don't even enjoy and I put them towards things I do enjoy. Like, what could that look like? Because I will endlessly work so hard on this, on my podcast on coaching, like all of this, I will keep learning in a way that I wasn't doing when I was in finance and so remembering that, I think, is what helped me move myself forward. Oh, good point, Jessica, that's so cool. I would agree 100% You're right. Like to be able to do something that you can put your full energy into be behind it, 100 100% because you and then just to watch and see what happens. It's, it's a pretty amazing process. What um? What advice would you give the budding aspirant in relation to, oh, okay, let me back up a little bit. I was hanging out with my family on holiday, and my my in laws, and my father in law had said, you know, I really admire that you were able to create your own career. Todd and you I worked in corporate life, and I've always, he had mentioned that he'd always dreamed of, you know, being able to do crafts, or like, he's very handy, and so he's had that dream, but it just was scary. And, and there's a lot of security behind a well paying job. And, and I, in that moment, my response was like, I know, to be honest, sometimes I ask myself, What the heck was I thinking? Like, why did why did I even want to do this? Because there's not a lot of security in that type of security. Like, I guess we can always look at security and like, when you when I really start to analyze security, like, and ask the question, what does it mean to be secure? And I get different answers from myself. So I guess I want to ask you that question, after you've been unsecure for three years. And I'm not saying you're insecure, but I just mean unsecure from a secure job, and I know, like even a secure job, is that really secure? Do you know? Because I know I hear a lot of people saying, like, I could lose my job. I'm nervous if this changes, or if that change happens. My whole career, I could be out on the street. And I know there's a lot of I don't want to say job insecurity, but I do hear grumblings of that around the place. So I guess I want to hear your thoughts on security in relation to personal security, and then, like job security and financial security and what that means to you? Yeah, such a great topic, right? I think what you said there was so important is that we have equated security to mean I have a steady corporate job, right? Like that, or and different types of jobs beyond that, but that's what we're talking about here. But we have equated that to be good and secure, when, in reality, it doesn't actually have real security, and especially in this day and age. You know, I think that when I think about like my parents generation, they had much more job security, right? There were pensions, there was all these like it was normal to be in a job for 20 to 30 years, which both my parents are in, and, and you look at today, and it's very unusual for someone to stay in one job for a very long time. And, and there's so much, there's so many layoffs, there's so much there's so much disruption. And, you know, I think back to one of my jobs, I remember there were, there was like round after round of layoffs, and the amount of stress and anxiety that with that was causing to me and all of my coworkers was just immense. So it's true that this perception that we have security in our jobs is a little bit of a fallacy these days, and I think that what it really is, it's giving you a steady paycheck. I think that's actually what what a regular job is doing, that, you know, you and I definitely are not in that same environment. But as far as, like security, it's true. I don't think that there's as much security as what we once perceived it to be. So as far as kind of moving towards where, where we are now, it's like, I think security, it's, it's almost like, how can you find it's more developing security in yourself, right? Like, I feel. That I have security, because I have faith that no matter what, I am going to figure things out. I'm not going to let myself end up on the street like and I have all these skills, all these talents and these abilities where it's like, I can, I can pivot, I can, I don't know, like, we live in a day and age where, like, you can make money in a million different ways and and I think that because of this perception that's like, this is the one way to go. It's like, we forget there's so many different ways to do things these days. And when you think outside the box and you learn to create that security in yourself, I think that's a much more grounded security than what this perception of a job is giving you. I like that. That's a good point, Jessica, because it Why couldn't I feel like I have more potential for security by being independently employed than the the other you know what I mean, like, right? Sometimes there's but there is a lot of pressure in that direction. And I think it probably boils down just to the actuality. Like, the reality of the situation is that, like you said, having a consistent paycheck coming in your that's feel secure, versus like, like we live in an economy here in South Florida where we have really busy winters and really slow summers. And being that we've been in this location for 18 years, we've watched the same fluctuation every single year, the same thing happens. So now I know to prepare for the summers. You know, a little more careful in the winter to make sure I don't have so much fun. So that summer comes around, I'm, like, prepared for it. So I guess what I'm getting at, or trying to get at is, or just continue to ask you about your feelings, about is, well, okay, let me back up a little bit. Sorry. Let me start let me start fresh. You have an incredible enthusiasm. You use the word faith, and you do believe in yourself that comes from somewhere. I'm guessing it came from ever since you were a kid. I'm also guessing, like you said, your parents came from another country, so that probably has your work ethic was really hounded in from a young age. So I'm sure, because I had a similar thing with my parents. My parents were both born here, but they, they always pushed me to work hard, and I have an incredibly strong work ethic, like I want to work, like I want to actually work, right? So I'm just curious that we're like, if somebody doesn't have that, and they and so, and usually it seems like, if they don't have that, it's like they're not really believing in themselves, that they could be independent. How could you train them to get that essential ingredient? It's almost like, when we hear this, like with morality in relationship to religion and our culture, and then even in yoga, we have a strong system of morality. Right away we come across the yamas and the niyamas. And a lot of times, I feel like Western practitioners seek out yoga because it seems so different from their religious upbringing that they might have had, whether it was through Christianity or Judaism or whatever their background was growing up. And from those religious traditions there was, there is a strong morality piece that we're taught from a young age. Don't steal, Don't lie, don't cheat, treat others nice, the golden rule, treat others as you like, to be treated yourself. And then we come into yoga, and we see, oh my gosh, they had the exact same 10 Commandments, more or less, right, like the yamas and the Amazon. Literally, there's 10 of them, you know, like, there's no there's not even, like, 11 over here and 10 over here. It's like, they're, it's almost exactly the same. I mean, they vary a little bit, but it's kind of the same thing. So then, I guess my, one of my questions for you is, is, where do you think that comes from? And how could you teach that to other folks that want to believe in themselves the way that you're speaking, you believe in yourself. So here's the thing is, you're, you're definitely right on the I was definitely brought up to have a very strong work ethic and and that was definitely kind of instilled in me by my parents, right? You work hard. You are, you know, just being that having that kind of steadiness, if you will. I will say the belief in myself did not come from my upbringing. I will say that that came from this transition. And I will say that I spent most of my life not really believing in myself. I spent most of my life feeling like, like a like a square peg in a round hole, and and just feeling like, well, I something's off, and I'm just, I'm trying to make everything work, but it doesn't seem to be working out for me. And feeling like, like I'm just getting knocked around in life, like, that's how I've spent most of my life, to be honest. And so the belief that. You're hearing now is really, I think it was built out of making this transition, and it was built out of, frankly, a lot of help, right? It was a lot of my yoga practice is a huge inspiration. I, you know, I have my own coaches, I have a therapist, like, I have built, kind of, like a whole array of of really important people around me. I have great friends as well. Like, I surround myself in an environment that supports me and and kind of reminds me when I forget myself, to believe in myself. And I think that's really important is, is sometimes you have to kind of borrow that belief from other people a little bit at first before you can really instill it in yourself. But I've, you know, as I've said, I've also cultivated, and I think what is really important there is kind of looking at the ways in which you have been able to do so. So, you know, whatever we are searching for evidence for we will find and so if you're searching for evidence and how you can't be trusted, and you you like, disappoint yourself all the time, and you're not able to do things, you will find so much evidence for that. You know, I, as a kid, I could not stick with anything. I tried a million things, and I was like, all over the place. I did not do a good job of that, right? Like, if I want to look for that evidence, I can find it on the flip side of that, if I want to look for the evidence of how I can trust myself, and I do make good decisions, and when I have followed that kind of that intuition, that that inner knowing that things have worked out better for me, I can also find evidence of that and, and so I think it's really important to kind of look for those, those times where, like, you have been able to rely on yourself, where you have been able to make good decisions for yourself that have led you on the right path. And and when you find those, it starts to make you it's it like, kind of builds on itself, right? So I think that that's what has really helped me a lot in this journey, and what led me to really choosing this path for myself. Because there were many moments where I was like, Uh, I don't know, I don't know if I should really go full force in the thing that I fully believe in for myself. But what really got me was going, Oh, I know I can do it. And here's all the ways that I know I can trust myself if I really want to. Oh, well said, Jessica, I love it. Thank you. Great answer. Can you coach me a little bit now? I have a question. Sure. All right, thank you. Let me try to actually take a second to figure out what is my big pain point right now? What is my big challenge? Oh, my gosh. Maybe it's going to come to me as I keep asking you other questions. Sure. Well, maybe I'll just go with that. How do I if I want to grow How do I really come in contact with what to figure out what's blocking me, like, what, what really is blocking me. You know what I mean, like? Because right now I'm thinking like, what, which direction do I go to even try to think, like, what I need a little bit of help with? I'm feeling pretty confident. I had a good turnaround situation recently with a in a family situation where, you know how your mind is, like, thinking, Oh, this isn't going the way. I don't like it. I don't this isn't going the way I wish, but there's nothing I can do. I can't change it. I can't change them. And then a simple little sit down, meet up, just made my heart just reopen again to go, Oh my gosh, there's hope that everything's gonna be okay, right? Like so that that was good, that that felt good. But I guess in relation to what, in what way would you encourage me to really dig down and try to find something to like? What's the process I could use to find a way to really figure out what's holding me back from jumping into the next level of sharing and serving others. Well, I feel like oftentimes it's the power of the questions that we ask ourselves. So when we ask ourselves more challenging questions like that, I feel like that is what breaks us out of our shells and and to me, that is really the power of coaching. Is like my job is just asking more powerful questions, getting you to look a little bit deeper beyond what you are naturally looking at yourself. So you know, one of my favorite questions to start with, which maybe you can answer right now, is, if I were the bravest version of myself, I would what would your answer be? I would, I would tell my story of my past without being fearful of what that would look like. That's probably that was one of my big fears, I have to admit, and I guess that's why I enjoy I'm excited talking to you, because you're kind of probing the same element in the way you spoke about how when you first started thinking maybe you would want to do a podcast, you started to, like, tell your own story, and then you go, that's scary, because it's recorded and it's out there forever. And I change my mind so much about the way I see things, that if I tell a version of the story, that then I want to change it later I've told it, and it's recorded and it's there forever. I guess maybe I'm scared of like, actually, or maybe giving myself permission that it can change down the road, that I could tell my story now and then I could change it. Does that make sense? Absolutely, absolutely, I can completely relate to that. So, yeah, I mean, that's the thing. Is, I think it's really important, like, what is it behind that? Yeah, that is scaring you, right? Which you're kind of answering a little bit more of, is this feeling of, what if it changes? So what would happen if it changed? Let me ask you that. I guess it's more the fear of, like, protecting other people that I in my life from before. Do you know what I mean, like just not knowing where to draw that line of you know? And I when I if I talk about a situation that involved other people, then now it affects those people on some level, or it could, and it might not, but you know what I mean, it could. So I guess that's, that's part of that's probably the big part of it, you know. And I keep trying to figure out ways to do it more from my own personal experience, like without talking through somebody else's potential way of seeing it. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know. I just always, I just think maybe I think too much about all of it and want to be so careful. I mean, that's all of us, right, yeah. Well, yeah, like, what do you feel like you need to let go of in order to to to move forward with sharing your your stories? I guess probably just simply that fear of just worrying what people are going to think. That's, that's, that's it. I think I worry too much whether people think, do you, do you when you I mean, I think that's natural, right? We all do. I worry about what people think sometimes too. And, yeah, so, I mean, to me, it's like, it's a question of, why? Like, why? Why do you want to share your story? Great question. Because you're right. Why would we want to do that? Like, what's the purpose? Do you ever question that? Do you ever think about that? Like, why am I even doing this? Is this to get fame? Is this to like, is it to help other people that are going through the same thing? Is it to give inspiration for others that probably are experiencing or could be experiencing the same thing? What is your why? For me, it's really like, I really believe that we are all learning things and then guiding others in the past and and while it might be a little bit different, I feel like, to me, it's like if, if anything that I have suffered through can even in a little bit help someone else feel more seen, and feel that they're less alone, and feel like they can overcome it and Move, move beyond it and and create a better life for themselves, then that's that's always worth it to me. Good point. Jessica, what do you see when you do your two, 510, and maybe beyond vision of the future? What? What? What are you striving toward? What is like if you have a goal that's down the track, what goal are you setting for yourself? Hmm, I mean, I want to reach as many people as I can, you know, and I think to me, it's, it's it's interesting, because, yes, to your point, it's like I never had any, I never had any intention of being a broadcasting myself over the internet in this way. You know, I never had any idea of any of this stuff. But to me, it's, it's it's so important that as many people as I can help to get them to feel less alone, to get them to feel like. They can do whatever it is that they want to do, to believe in their dreams, to be able to step outside of the box and and live the life that they really want for themselves and and really come home to themselves. You know, ultimately, it's it's interesting, because I see every you know, even though I'm a coach, it's like, to me, it's like, but I'm rooted in yoga and everything that I learned from Dharma, and I think that his teachings are coming through me in my coaching and in the podcast and everything I do, because it's become a part of who I am. So I feel like we're all just helping to raise the vibration of all those that we can well said, good answer. That's cool, Jessica, yeah, awesome. Wait, but I need to hear your why. You didn't we didn't get to your why of sharing your story. Yeah, I would. I'm on a similar thread of what you're saying. I i feel like part of my why is one of my Whys is that I want to help as many people as possible. I gained a lot of benefit from practicing and learning yoga. I feel like it helped me move through depression. It helped me move through not believing in myself, similar to what you were saying in relation to running my own business, and I feel like it's so it's provided a means of having self worth in relation to having a career. It's enabled me to raise my family, and I have two amazing children, and I and I've been able to, you know, my wife and I run a business and and raise them. And for me, that's, that's my big why I think I'm doing it a large amount of everything I'm doing currently, I feel like is for my family, that's my, my main motivation, to provide an environment where they can have friends, go to school, have a stable environment, send them off to pursue their dreams. And so I'm very focused currently on that. I do dream of an idea of retirement one day, but more like, I always want to work. I want to work till the day I die. That's something that I look at Dharma, and I'm very inspired by. I see him like personally as a yoga teacher, and to see him at 85 I saw like on your Instagram story today, you posted the video that was put out of him doing a handstand. It's a beautiful handstand. And then I think, how old is this man? He's 85 years old. How old am I? I'm 50. Okay, another 35 years. I'm going to still, potentially, if I can follow in his footsteps, I can, I can do this for another 35 years and still be busting out a handstand. What the heck that's incredible, right? So I think, like, in that long term structure. So is that a selfish why? I don't think that why, personally, is like, selfish that I just want to be really healthy for me so I can look cool and like, look good and like, then have people compliment me that I'm 85 and I'm still looking good, because there is a little bit of that. Sometimes when you're when you take care of yourself, people do tell you, like, Wow, you look so great. You look so great. And sometimes you think, are they just saying that, you know? Like, and I'm not trying to say I look great, but I just mean, like, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, I I do want. That's something that the yoga has always from the very first time I saw a picture of an Indian yogi, whether it be like a dreadlock sadhu meditating and just looking really serene like that was really attractive to me. Also maybe like having ash on their body, and like looking like they don't really have a lot of material possessions, that always was extremely appealing to me, and then like to see good health and physical ability, that always made me think, oh my gosh, that's what I want. Like, that's really what I want. So that's a big part of my why, like, why I'm doing what I'm doing, why I stay committed on the path of holding down teaching yoga and holding a space together and and then I guess on a broader level or deeper level, whichever way we want to look at it, I really would like to see a planet Earth, This planet where everybody was feeling some community, feeling like, some excitement, and just feeling of like, hope for like, just like, not even like, for the future, because we're in the moment. We're never gonna get to the future, other than just being present. But I think like, if we all supported one another, and there was good feelings amongst and like, I guess less anger and less hatred and less all that. So that's kind of my bigger why, although that's more of the pipe dream. Why? Because as the more I look at like history and I see how history repeats itself, I mean, maybe we're just needing to live in a world that has a lot of challenge, because that's the only way we would grow. So I. I'm not trying to say I'm thinking the world has to be any different than it is, but I do believe that if we came together and worked a little tighter, just a little we're just a little more conscious about trying to make space for everyone. That's my why that was beautiful. Thank you. Jessica, been thinking about, thinking about a little bit late, not just lately, but yeah, yeah. Okay, cool, yeah, yeah. I love that. Well, one thing I was thinking about, it's, it's so interesting, right? This idea of like, well, what if my why is selfish and and it's funny, because actually I remember Dharma one time it it was like, somewhere along this path of, you know, starting up this business and everything, and one day he goes, You will say, like, the most random things, and you're like, Oh, I needed to hear that. And clearly it stuck with me where he said something along the lines of how the goal is self realization and and as much as we want to help other people, it's like, but your first and foremost goal is self realization is working on yourself. It's, it's, there's this thing in the Dhammapada, I believe it is where it says, Before you fix the crooked you need to fix yourself. And, and I think about that a lot, where it's like, as in order, even when it seems selfish, I'm like, but it's not selfish, like we do need to work on ourselves. We do need to to better ourselves in a certain way. And, and, you know, have have stability, have these things, the security within ourselves, like all these great things in order for us to help other people. And so it was funny. I was having a conversation just the other day with someone, and he was like, Oh, I think my motivation is so selfish. And I was like, Well, you know, if the byproduct is that people are benefiting of it, I'm like, let yourself be a little selfish, you know, take care of yourself, like, maybe let that come first, and let your the fact that it's helping other people be a byproduct of you first helping yourself. And let that be okay. I think you're right. It's funny how we're like that, isn't it like that we're, it's like we are so selfish, but then when we actually it's this weird paradox, like we're we're selfish, we get more enlightened, we've become less selfish, but then that feels like we're being selfish. So it's a funny like, flip out. Yeah, totally. Well, so Good point. Good point. Well, Jessica, what I appreciate about this is that you are a coach, so I do like to interview coaches, because I feel like you end up coaching me, right, like, so thank you, and thank you for being open to that. And I really, I really have enjoyed this conversation. I'm so excited to meet a new friend, and hopefully we can collaborate in the future, and if any way, I can support you and and everyone listening, definitely follow Jessica on Instagram and on her website. I know all the links are in the description, so it's easy to just click on there and just come sure from the website and or social media, slash your YouTube channel, slash all the other places that you are are putting your information into the public that we can write you and just tell you what we think, right? Like you would be open to that absolutely would love that, I'm sure, like I would love to compliment if you're listening, I had somebody who was I was talking about podcasting, and she was like, just curious, and she was asking me, like, what do I do on my show to get people to, like, stay into to stay interested? And I said, Well, you know, it's I, it's amazing, like, I'm so curious. And you started off the whole conversation with, we don't know who's listening. We just don't like, we have no idea, like, that's what's kind of cool. That's really cool about it. You're just putting it out there. It's here for free. If you like it. Come if you don't, you don't have to. I love that about it. But then when someone writes me a note and says, Great show, or Jessica was so cool. I loved what she had to say, or anything like that. It's always like, Oh my gosh, somebody listened and they enjoyed it. But then this person and my relation and me telling them this story, they said, Yeah, but Todd people don't they don't want you to try to get them to do something like they're they just want to listen. And then if you start telling that they need to, like, do more stuff that just, it just doesn't connect. And I thought, hmm, is that true? Like, so maybe this could be a test. If you're listening, send Jessica a message. Seriously, say hi or my. I think is this or anything like that. We love it. We really appreciate it. You don't have to do it, not saying you have to. We still love doing what we're doing. You don't have to. But if you got, if you have an extra minute, we'd love to hear from you. Any Yeah, thank you, Jessica, any closing thoughts or further insights you'd like to share before we close our conversation. Well, first off, I could not agree more. Like, please shoot me a message. I would love it. It Yes. To your point, it is so nice getting to hear back from people and hearing that they enjoy the show, because we just keep putting them out there. And we were like, I hope people like it, you know, I it was so nice. A friend of mine the other day was like, Oh, I listened to your recent episode, and it was one that I was like, I don't know if it was good or not. And she was like, I loved it. You had such great points. And I was like, that's amazing. So nice. But yeah, to answer your question, I would just close off by saying, like, I want everyone to remember, like, there's so much more out there if you're willing to experiment and explore. And my favorite thing is, like, just follow your curiosity. Like, I think that we have become disconnected from being curious, you know, it's something that we associate with being like a child. Or, you know, your childhood allows you to be curious and try different things. And you know, dharma is definitely a huge inspiration to me around this. You know, he's 85 years old, but he cracks jokes. He makes us remember to be playful with things, with our with our practice, with our lives. And to me, the ability to bring back that playfulness, that curiosity and and be able to be free of this, this seriousness, this like kind of grip that we have on on being a certain way on doing things, a certain way. When we free ourselves with that, it's like the world opens up to you. So I invite everyone to to get a little more curious and and be playful in life. Awesome. Jessica, thank you so much. You're so welcome. This was such a pleasure. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. Thank you so much for having me on the show. You know it. We'll do it again. Thank you. Native yoga, Todd, cast is produced by myself. The theme music is dreamed up by Bryce Allen. If you like this show, let me know if there's room for improvement. I want to hear that too. We are curious to know what you think and what you want more of what I can improve. And if you have ideas for future guests or topics, please send us your thoughts to info at Native yoga center. You can find us at Native yoga center.com, and hey, if you did like this episode, share it with your friends. Rate it and review and join us next time you for you know you.