Dale Matzkow - Pilates & Yoga: Bridging the Gap Between

Dale Matzkow is a seasoned Pilates instructor based in Juno Beach, Florida. With a background spanning several decades, Dale has trained under various prestigious instructors and integrated both classical and contemporary methods into her practice. Dale began her journey with Pilates in the mid-80s and has since dedicated herself to teaching and expanding her knowledge. She regularly teaches mat Pilates and is recognized for her expertise in adapting workouts to suit both novices and seasoned practitioners.

Visit Dale on her website: https://www.purepilatesnyc.com/
Follow her on IG: https://www.instagram.com/purepilatesnyc/

Key Takeaways:

• Historical Insights: Discover the origins of Pilates, developed by Joseph Pilates during World War I, and its evolution into a renowned fitness method.
• Classical vs. Contemporary Pilates: Learn the key differences between classical Pilates, which adheres closely to Joseph Pilates' original teachings, and contemporary approaches that incorporate modern advancements in bodywork.
• Benefits of Pilates: Understand how Pilates helps in injury recovery and improves overall strength, flexibility, and body awareness.

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Transcript

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Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast. So happy you are here. My goal with this channel is to bring inspirational speakers to the mic in the field of yoga, massage bodywork and beyond. Follow us @nativeyoga and check us out at nativeyogacenter.com All right, let's begin Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast. This week, our special guest is Dale Matzkow. Dale is a Pilates instructor. She lives here in Juno Beach, Florida, and she joins me in studio for this conversation. I'm really excited because Dale is going to be offering a eight class series of mat Pilates here at Native Yoga Center. And you can visit her on her website

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//www.purepilatesnyc.com. You can also follow her on Instagram at @purepilatesnyc. And I'm so excited for you to get a chance to meet Dale. Let's go ahead and begin. I'm so excited to have Dale Matzkow here with me in the studio. Dale, how are you doing? So how do you feel right now? I'm psyched to be here. I'm super excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. Yay. Well, you know, I'm excited because you're a Pilates instructor. And you are getting ready to teach a Pilates course here at our studio here in Juno Beach, Florida. And I wanted to ask you some questions about Pilates. Because I have taken a few Pilates Mat classes. I've never actually practice Pilates on a reformer. I said that right? Yeah. Cadillac is I don't even know if the Cadillac is but I've heard that word a lot of times. So I just wanted to talk to you and ask you questions about your journey with Pilates and just some of the history too about Pilates and who you've gotten a chance to study with. On that note, can you tell me like how you first got involved in practicing Pilates? Sure. So my first experience was in Canada, I was actually given a book, I think, back in those days, which was most of the way that any of us were introduced to it in the 80s. And it was a white body conditioning is what it was called at that time. So yeah, it was a book that I was given by one of my coaches and told that just to look at it, I had no idea what it was. But at the same time, Jane Fonda was all her videos were out. And she had been taking Pilates for a long time at that time, too. So that was kind of my first real intro into it without really understanding what it was. That's cool. What year are we talking here? Like? 84? Wow. 8486. Nice. So you're in Canada? Yes. What part of Canada? So that's Southern Ontario. Nice. Yeah. And you somebody has handed you a book and said, check this out. Just do it. Just do this. And did you have some sort of like conditioning? were you an athlete? Did you have any particular reasons why you saw Pilates out or what was like the situation that caused you to actually heed their advice? Sure. So most of it was for strengthening. I was a volleyball player at the time, I had been a lifelong athlete, certainly at this height. And I my knees were always really bothered me and just small things were bothering me. Yeah. And it was through implementing the Pilates or body conditioning at the time that I was able to mitigate any real pains that I had, at that time. Nice. Kind of continued on with it. Very cool. Yeah. When did you start training to become a Pilates instructor? So that was at the end of my career. I was modeling at the time and all the models were doing Pilates and it was again back in that was at the in the late night early 90s. That nobody really I mean, they knew about it but it was kind of like a secret. Nobody was really talking too much about it was just on the part sites about becoming popular and people were starting to do it because the rich and famous for doing it. So I think it kind of dovetailed into that whole movement. It was from there that I stepped into his studio for the first time I had had Matt practice, but I had stepped into his studio. And I was shocked by what I had seen. And I became super addicted to it and loved how it made me feel. And it wasn't until I got on the equipment that I really felt like this is exactly what I can see myself doing my entire life. More importantly teaching it. Yes, definitely. I fell in love with it straight away. Very cool. Yeah. Can you tell me a little bit of the history about plies? All I know is that there's a man named Joseph Pilates and he's the founder. And I've heard that he had practice yoga and probably did and was a dancer. Am I right there? Nope, not sorry. Oh, good. Thank you. All right, good. Good. Okay, good lesson here. Yeah. It is. It's a misconception, right. So his background was that he was German. He was a physical movement, educator practitioner himself, and an inventor or writer. And he came up with this method while he was in an in a camp in the Isle of Man during World War One. And she used it to help himself and his fellow gentlemen that were on the island with him to get themselves to feel better. It was their active daily routine, just to keep themselves healthy. Why they were interred there. Yeah. Interesting. Then yeah. And then coming to New York, he came to New York shortly thereafter, and started by believe he wrote his first book, he wrote three books that we can still to this day use, everybody uses them. And it was off of that, that he then developed his Mac class more into the method that we know it to be today, is that considered classical Pilates, and it originally started on a mat. And there was no equipment. There wasn't any equipment, he found that there were originally 34 exercises. And that's that book that I brought you to show us. And what was your response? Well, when I first looked at the pictures, I said, this is yoga. And then they said, No, it's not. Yes, this is great. So that's the first thing that I said, I used to say that all the time, because I had a very strong yoga background prior to my Pilates. Oh, wow. And that's kind of how it again, transitioned me into this. I walked in, and I was like, this is yoga. So much of it was Yoga. But I feel that at that time, what was familiar in my body was there were similar movements. Once I got to the equipment, it was very different. what point did Mr. Pilates, invent the equipment, and then began to popularize? So I think that was more and I think he was always inventing it from my understanding. He started at the camp with anything that he could use, he was always utilizing. Yeah. And the mat was the first step is the essence of his work. And the equipment was developed after because people were having difficulties doing the mat work. So people think it's the other way around that the equipment. That was it. But that was invented, that she came up with that to assist in the mat, developed over from there over 500 exercises. Interesting. What do you think the and maybe there's a clear answer to this? Or maybe it's more speculation, but what do you think was his motivation behind the positions or moves that he created? You said there was 34 initial original original positions? What? How would that differentiate from yoga in relation to if you are the inventor? What would you what would you think was the mechanisms or the thinking behind the way that he kind of differentiated the practice from say, a classic yoga practice to this is Pilates like, what are the big differences, I think, primarily for me, and I can only speak to myself is that in my yoga practice, I would work really out of the joint. So I'm hyper mobile. And it wasn't until I got into Pilates, where I learned to stabilize and then mobilize my body. And it was the perfect combination for me of stretch strength and endurance, which I definitely need the endurance aspect of things. So I think that was a lot of it. But overall, it was for him. It was a strengthening method. And she really believed that his method would change the world and he was wanting people to do it every day. So I think there was a lot of that back behind it. Yeah. Does that sort of answer does it sounds like there's a little more emphasis on the strengthening components are there then putting emphasis on improve Adding flexibility, I'm sure flexibility naturally improves by doing some of the movements. But it sounds more like it's strength orientated is definitely strength. And it can go the other way, too. So he was training dancers. And so you had them coming in. They were already so strong, but they were injured. And he would then look at the injury but always work around the injury. So there were stories that people came for knee injuries, I know my teacher came for shin, ankle knee, and who was his assistant? And he just worked completely around the injury to the injured area to then support it. Gotcha. How then would you relate or compare Pilates and physical therapy? That's a dangerous. It's a dangerous question. I'm intrigued. Why, well, how could that be a dangerous? How could that? Is that a controversial idea? Sure. It is right? Because physical therapists say you should come to physical therapy and we're licensed. And therefore you Yeah, got it. The same way. Like as a massage therapist, I'm not supposed to crack you. That's for the chiropractor. Right? That's it. So there is that, that that challenge between these two professions, is not so much of a challenge, as opposed to we understand in our practice, we understand what our scope of our practice is. And that is not our job to treat, or, yeah, we don't die. Yes, I get it. There's nothing to that. But we worked closely with people's doctors and physical therapists every day. Yeah. So there is that mutual respect there? For sure. Cool. Yeah, that makes sense. That's cool. That's good. That there's a little distinction there. Uh, huh. What a nice. So you, you said you started to train like, early 90s. Like in actually becoming an educator slash teacher? No. So that I didn't do that until later, I was a student for at least I'd say, probably hardcore student, I'd say close to almost 10 years. So as a student first, and the teachers would say, oh, you should do this, you should do this. And I was like, forget it. And it was coming to my certification. Do you get certified either in yoga, or Pilates? And I went the Pilates route. Yeah, there had been already so many yoga teachers. And there were a few polite, there were several Pilates instructors, but nothing like there are today. So it was just something that I was really intrigued by, and I felt fantastic every day from it. And I love the equipment. So that for me, yeah, that's where I focus my energy. That's cool. And where did you do your training? I've had a couple. So I have all New York based primarily and Sal enthuse it was a movement salon space, it was more of a contemporary approach was my first one. And then I went through the Pilates studio in New York, which is the authentic method. Gotcha. Yes. Oh, I like the fact that you said the authentic method. Are there are there? Like in yoga, we have like so many different styles. Can you give me a little bit of understanding of like, what the main styles in Pilates are? And what some of the not politics, but just some of the? Like, are there certain styles that some people deem is legitimate? And other styles like, is there like a denominational and non Danette nondenominational element to Pilates? Sure, there, there absolutely is. And those of us that have been in it, as long as we have we tried to I try to avoid that. And I know what works for me. But I'm trying to be in a space of where everybody has a voice and everybody's practice is important. So there are several different schools. Gosh, there's so many now from when we were first, especially out of New York, because that's where Joseph Pilates was. That's where the the method was honed. And that's, that was the original, that has a different element to it, I believe. And there are contemporary approaches without going into names, but there's, they're wonderful as well. So to answer your question, yes. There's two different distinction. Several different distinctions. Okay. And contemporary content, contemporary classical. Original. Is classical and original, the same? Yes, in my opinion. Yes. So you just could probably break it in sounds into two categories of classical and contemporary. Yeah. And I think that's fair to the school that you go to was it like, affiliated underneath? Joseph Pilates? Yes, got it. And now there's A lot of schools that are completely not affiliated. That's correct. Got it? Yes. How would you differentiate then simply classical from contemporary Pilates? Again, slippery grounds for me. I didn't realize I didn't know there was so much. So much slippery ground. I should have assumed that because they're slippery ground in every show, right? Yes. Okay, cool. I'm How would you? How would you answer that though? Just? Yeah, for me, again, answering for myself personally. There's the classical approach, I guess it would be like ballet and other forms of dance was how my teacher explained it to me. And that made sense for me. So there's things within the classical system that they stick to and ControlLogix that they stick to. And they stick to Joe's original work very, not very often do they deviate from that? I do hold contemporary background. So I kind of do what I like when I like, which is also wonderful to have that side of it. And it's kind of like whatever, for me the studio that I was in. That's how it's a classical studio. That's where I'm at. Yeah. So yes, it sounds very similar to the Ashtanga world and the vinyasa flow world, where you have a set sequence of postures real intense. Sticking to the vinyasa and breath movement coordination as you have teachers are those of us who teach vinyasa flow as well or teach vinyasa flow, we just, we get to choose. Yeah, okay. Wonderful. Yeah, I think that should be everybody should have that choice to whatever works most for them and their clients. I for me, I love the classical work. I always have. But I also appreciate the other work that I'm seeing, because we know much more about the body as well. Now as opposed to we did even back when I started, there's so much more information that's coming true. And yeah, I never tire I never get tired of learning. I never get tired of my method. I just don't. So I think if that can keep your interest after that many years, there's definitely something to it. Yeah, good point. Good point. Yeah. Is the way stronger has a sequence of poses. You mentioned that in Pilates. There's about 34. There's 34 original original mat exercises, and then we have in 500 Over 500 Over 500 different exercises and exercises that can be done. Okay. Wow. All the different apparatus. Wow, on Okay, gotcha. But on the mat, you would break it into about a 3430 34 different movements. that's those are the ones that that is the entire Mac system. So it is a system? Yes, you would not have somebody come in? And do every single exercise I would not there are people that do I would not do that. So I've always given depends on the person three to five, and we give them homework. So the mat was always homework. And so when you came into studio, the understanding was that you had done your mat work. So when you came into the studio, you were able to do other things, and they could see that you had taken responsibility for your body, which was it's a way to reorganize the body on a daily basis before you go out into the world. Very cool. That makes sense. That makes sense. Can you explain a little bit the word the terminology, because you you had mentioned ControlLogix trol. And I'd never heard that word until I met you. And I thought what a cool word. The study of control, I'm guessing is has to be the definition of the mind, body and spirit. And so what how would you define ControlLogix? For me, I would confine I would define it for me as the complete coordination of mind body and spirit together I don't think you can have there's been a movement that's just kind of been like body and mind I don't think you can have the first two is the third I don't And Joseph Pilates and neither interesting. I really stick to that and it is the way that you control your body you want to be in control of your body at all times throughout every sequence throughout throughout every exercise. So then the mind that follows right whatever you're thinking in the mind is going to manifest in the as you know in the body. Yeah, sure. On what level or How did Mr. Pilates weave the spirit side and mind body spirit or Mind Body Soul because then that gets into potential like really Jin and or spiritual belief did he? Possibly did? Did he have a way of blending that piece into it? Because I didn't realize that Pilates actually, that's something that in yoga, we definitely noticed that there is like a mind body spirit connection. And I agree that or I think it's similar in that we could in the yoga world, make it a little more secular and potentially remove the spirit slash soul component and make it just about mind and body. And then, I guess from the yoga side, we could think, well, you could blend in any spiritual concepts you have into your practice. And then if we're in India, we potentially would pick up on some of their traditions, whether it be Hinduism or Buddhism or Jainism. But what on what level did Mr. Pilates if he's from Germany, did you have a Christian background? What was what kind of spiritual background did he bring into it? So for him, I think his spiritual practice from again, from my understanding, what I was told was that he believed that when the the mind was calm, the body then follows. And then within that, you integrate that into a lifestyle system. So his he believed mind body spirit, and he ended up taking he had a place up in upstate New York, as well that he would head up to on the weekends where he was fanatical about that private time and just giving himself that time of reflection. And so it was nature as well. Yeah. I have not heard too much about his own personal beliefs. But I do know that he was definitely dabbled in the spiritual aspect of things on several different levels. Yeah. Because his background, you know, he did gymnastics, but he did he martial arts. So circus. Yeah, was where his Yeah, you know, background boxing. So there was and he definitely, I think later in life, he was more reflective. And that my understanding is that that side came up much more in the practice. Yes, for him. Got it. Cool. That's cool. In when I looked at the book that you brought, for me, today, I saw something that looked like lying on the back, taking the legs up vertically, and then taking the legs above the head, much like we do in yoga was say, plow pose. Right. And so can you explain a little bit about the actual technical skill and or ideas that you attempt to convey when say, teaching that particular movement? Is there like a specific Pilates style of cueing? Yeah, cueing? Yeah, yeah. So I think you were talking about the rollover, perhaps that sounds kind of like when you're laying on your back and take your legs and you roll them over the top of your head on if you actually roll all the way over? No, no, just come to plow. Yep. Work in the strength of your abdominal hip flexor muscles, and quad and it's hard to do that hip flexion movement. Yeah, what I'm articulating the spine, okay, and holding the spine in that positioning as well. So there is movement involved, and we don't, we want to see that the movement is controlled. So similar to what we've been in class. And we've all seen it, people just throw their legs up and over. Probably not the best exercise if they're using that much force to get into it. So we the system is established, that's building one builds on top of the other. So when it is done, if you watch it, if you see it, you can't think that one position is not linked to the other because it's quite obvious that the system is in place. And this and if there is a broken link or a missing link, you also see that within the practice, yes. So it's pretty interesting, for sure, we want to make sure we can, somebody is capable of understanding the concept of Pilates, and able to utilize that in every single movement. So they there has to be that mind body connection, they have to be aware when they're on the mat. They're not just looking around. And yes, there is a focus element that and there's concentration. And that's what we're trying to really get across in the movements for sure. When you challenge them by taking that away during our inversion work. That's cool. I wonder, you know, a lot of times when people think, think of yoga, that's a roofer going off, maybe that I wouldn't get injured in yoga, because like say, say I've never taken a yoga class before and I have my rose colored glasses on for what I would imagine yoga to be like this Mind Body Soul practice that would help me to restore some sense of equanimity or like happiness in life or, and also get physically fit. And I don't think of like, oh, well yoga, I'm gonna get hurt. But then if you have gotten injured practicing, does do people practicing Pilates that have like a classic type A personality like I do? Do they? Do they ever get accurate? Do they ever get hurt? Oh, sure. Yeah. Cuz like any movement practice is possible, right? I think in any movement practice, correct. I mean, you can see the best people, we do no harm. That is, obviously one of the main goals for us is to never do any harm. But you also, I've never had knock on wood. In my class, I have not had that. But I have seen it. And it's usually not even in a class, it's in the studio setting, that somebody hasn't done safety first, that somebody hasn't been paying attention. There's there's not the basic and the fundamental work has not been there, to challenge them then to build on that. So we pretty much know that as soon as somebody comes in, even if they say they're from another, they've done Pilates before. As soon as as soon as we see them from the first exercise, which I'm sure you can also attest to, you pretty much know the strength of their or their scope of their practice. And then you go from there, and you're able to either pull back or to challenge them. And so you are reading the body. Most important thing is the one piece of advice that my teacher gave me because you do get so fixated on like, when I was an apprentice, I was like, what can they do, and you can do this and you can do that. And he was like it is as basic as listening to their breathing, because that is going to tell you more about them as a person, and as an individual, to what their practice. So the body is the breath is always going to show you before the body does. And he was not wrong about that. So you can have somebody walk in and you're just kind of watching you see their posture, right? We make that assessment right away. It's just your eye after this many years of being trained. And then you listen for their breathing. And as soon as they hit the mat or the equipment, it shows you so much. So are they breathing correctly? It's the Joseph Pilates would say it's the first thing that we do in life and the last thing that we do, so we should learn how to do it properly. That's right. Sound Advice? Yes. But there's so many people that come in, you see them holding their breath. And when they're in that state of just hold, they can't release that. Yeah, they can't release the muscles properly or align the spines, because there is this grip pattern that does happen. And it's just something that has helped me in my own practice to be really aware of even when I do my own practice. I'm like, Well, okay, I'm not breathing properly, or just I'm not breathing deep enough. Yeah, deep enough. Yeah. That's cool. I remember I had had I had sustained an injury, I'm not exactly sure from what or when. But my friend, Tim Feldman, who's a yoga teacher, said, You know, I recommend that you go and try Pilates, you know, as a way to rehab. That's great. Because sometimes maybe we're doing things like repetitively. And to go to another way of looking at the body and moving could potentially get us to figure out a solution or strengthen in a way. Do you often have people coming to from from, you know, with injuries? And can you give me an example of a situation where there was an injury and you guys were able through Pilates to be able to retrain the musculature to to heal that injury? Yeah, sure. So I think every day we have somebody that comes in with it with an injury, whether it be ankle right up the chain, right, so you can start with, you'll have foot injuries or ankle injuries knee is quite common low back is so common, and it's usually something that they've done. And they'll say, oh, I don't know what I did. And I said, Well, how did you do? What? What activity were you doing? Oh, well, I was doing, you know, I went down to pick up a great weight and just turned the wrong way. And I'm like, right there, you know? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's usually something that has been done repetitively over time. And one time, it just doesn't take. So that's really wonderful. That's a huge part of our practice, that we're able to help people regain that strength and mobility and, and recover, recover. Yeah, yeah. And help them recover this actual day of everyday activities in everyday life. So that is really, I think that's such a wonderful part of the practice, which I'm sure you can attest to. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. I'm curious. Like I know you're getting ready to teach a four week Pilates series here at the studio. Yes. Thank you. Yay, I'm excited to I'm definitely a calm Yes. The first time I went to Pilates, I mean, I went to a mat Pilates class. I've never actually worked on a reformer before I went to a mat Pilates class. And I made the mistake of thinking, Well, I have a yoga practice, this will be a piece of cake. And it was very challenging. And it kicks my butt. And it was humbling. Yeah, it is very humbling. I'm curious if I say on one of the classes you have you were to have a 20 year old and an 85 year old, come into the class together? And how are you able to make it appropriate for each ability level? Is that an is that a challenging thing to do in Pilates, or is that relatively easy, it's relatively easy, surprisingly enough, it's relatively easy, because there's always some, I don't want to say modification. But yes, there's always something that you can change to suit, it is for everybody. And you can change it and adapt it to whatever you need to suit that person. So I had a woman that was recently in my classes, and she had said that to me, she said, I've been doing, I'd been doing Pilates for so long. And it really, she ended up getting hurt. And she said in my every time I walked out, I knew I should be feeling better, but I just didn't. And she said, and I really upset me because I enjoyed it. But I was always hurting myself. And so we took her practice, and we started the entire thing standing. And now she's able to do 80% of the work that she never thought she'd ever be able to do again. And so you can adopt it, you can change it to suit, whoever is in front of you. And that's something that we do teach the body in front of you. It's not about us, as the instructor of molding people into these positions that maybe aren't suitable for them is to be in the same space and sharing the space. And I feel that it is a healing space that we're in, and how can we benefit the person that is in front of us on any given day, it doesn't matter what they have going on, we should be able to be present enough and aware that we can challenge them, but at the same time in a safe manner and have respect and dignity for the person that you're teaching in front of you. That's an Hello concept. Is there you know, we hear about certain yoga worlds where it's very strict, like, like we've heard stories about and I won't name any names, but like somebody's practicing, maybe in India, and they weren't doing the posture correctly. And so they get a little kick, or they get a swift little flak or something like that. Is there? Is there a little bit of that strictness in the Pilates? I mean, I guess, with teachers, there's so many different, like, all of our personalities can come out. So if somebody is strict to begin with, and then they take Pilates and teach strictly or if someone's kind of relaxed in their whole experience of life, and they become a teacher, they might teach in that relaxed high. But is there like, in the classical method, is it kind of strict and make you work hard? Yeah. Okay, yeah. Jump right on that there was no, there's not a lot of gray there. All right. Yeah. For me, there's definitely I mean, any teachers that I have experienced, are strict. Yeah. And then this is how it's going to be. And there you're like, but yeah, you know, yeah, I remember I had a teacher, one of the things that made me fall in love with the method was that somebody was kind enough to see my body as it was, in that moment, my inseam is a 35 and a half inseam. I was in a class with all dancers. And there, I was trying to hold my legs out on a 45 degree angle. My back was bowing, I'm certain of it like my back hurt, my knees hurt, everything hurt. My hip flexors were like, on fire. And it was something and he was a PT. And he just walked by me looked at me. And he said, bend your knees. And I was like, What are you talking like, in my head. Nobody ever told me to just bend my knees. And it took all the pressure. And I was like, oh, and I was able to perform what was required and what the exercise was actually looking for. So that was a very humbling experience for me. So while it can be strict in one regard, there has always been respect. I do know what you're talking about. I have also had those teachers that I've just walked out in within the classical system of just being like, what just happened? Wow. Because that the older school teachers like yeah, when I was young, yeah, definitely. I had one teacher in Canada that used to use a poker like and poke you all right, and hit you. It was constant and yeah, they're just like, what they do and they're cranky. I don't know. But so yes, to answer your question, I think it is much more towards type A Yeah. I was Yeah, yeah. Many regards from my experience when I first started for sure. I think it's definitely leveled out now to where people are much more respectful and yeah, they're strict and but you can still have personalities where you can be strict but be kind. Yeah, yes. Yes. Should never not be the case. Yeah, good point. You can blend compassion and strict together and it can work really well. Absolutely. Yes. It shouldn't be this like if you see Joseph Pilates and some of the poses and teaching, you would never probably ever want him near you. Like he's pushing somebody's head down between the legs is pushing on their back and the person's just like, like, just buckled. Yeah. And so you're just like, that's no, that's not okay. Yeah, we know a lot better now. Right? So yes, there's been a leveling out across the whole field, it seems like in all these different modalities. I wonder why that is. There's such like an intensity. Is there like a like the intense? And maybe we're getting a little bit more into, you know, I guess a philosophy or philosophical but I mean, even in the world of bodywork, likely if we would just pick something like Rolfing Rolfing is an intense form of bodywork. I've heard more now that golfers are trying to like tone it down a little. So it's a little less scary. When people aren't like, oh, my gosh, I would never go to a roughing session, because they'll make you cry. So now they're trying to like, you know, soften that a little bit in the yoga world? Definitely. There's been a little bit of a reckoning in terms of like, you know, the personalities that pushed it, obviously, to have supplies. Why do you think that is? Are we just getting smarter? We're getting softer? And softer. And I think there's some of them? I mean, I think there has to be for me. I think that I I have seen the softening per se I definitely have. And because the other way was just so aggressive. So there had to be there had to be reckoning, because a lot of the things that were being done weren't correct. And weren't, it wasn't a value, I think anymore. There's certain things that are but there's certain to be little somebody's never Yeah, I don't know where your point is going. Yeah, good point. And I think so we have seen it across the board. And I think it all comes back to treating everybody with dignity and respect. Kindness. Yeah. They're there to just move their body. So how about being in a space that supports that? And? Yeah, it's better than that. Good point. What like so in Ashtanga Yoga, we start off with some citation A, then we do some citation B. And then there's the fundamental asanas triangle twisting triangle and a few others. In a classical mat, Pilates class, where would you start me? Like what is the if you said you would maybe pick like five of the 34? To give and say, like a one hour class? Yeah, I would only where would you? What would we start with? Well, since I know your yoga, that kind of, I probably push you a little bit more. But I would challenge you on things that I knew that you you're very comfortable on the mat. So if we were in a mat, I if we were in a room, I wouldn't say comfortable on a mat. You mean like lying down on a mountain or your Yogi's being used to being on a mat? Yeah, but how would How could somebody be? I mean, I understand how some it could be uncomfortable. But what do you mean about someone who's not used to working on a mat? Do you mean just not having a lot of physical practice prior to Yeah, gotcha. So I knew I would know, I'm gonna have to challenge you a very different way. So for me, I would probably look at some of the pre Pilates things. But more importantly, I would challenge you with the wall work that we do, and just see where things are there because that kind of really teaches you a lot about somebody's alignment, as well as Matt, but well is one of my favorite places to start for everybody. Because it is our mat standing up. Gotcha. And a lot of people tend to when they lie down, they they do get a little disoriented. Yeah. And to where they're finding their centering aspect of things. It's easier to find standing up. A lot of people will also it's an automatic response for people when they lie down onto the mat to close their eyes so that we're not present Good point. And we really want to keep them present. So I would start working, standing and leaning feet, hands on wall or back on wall or surely I would do back on wall, but I would also start with footwork to see what your feet are doing. Yeah, because people like well, it doesn't really matter. It does matter. Yeah, because then I'm gonna see your linemen of your entire body from there. Does Pilates or classical mat Pilates integrate balancing on one leg for sure. What is an example of a one leg legged wall? squat one legged wall squat. What does that look like? You put your back toward the wall and you bend one knee up, and then you bend your standing knee and just do a little squat action. Nope. So you find a seated position against the wall. I think when you did that, you are so wonderful to do that video. And I was like, Oh, can you just take a video? And we did that it was a wall squat? Oh, yeah. And that's it. It's okay. Gotcha. Gotcha. Put your back on the wall, bend your knees and slide down. That's right. Gotcha. And you're holding yourself there. And we're gonna see the alignment of the body where you're challenged under, in strength aspect of things are what happens to your body when it's put under? I don't want to say stress. But yes. And then we're gonna remove one leg to see then how the body shapes and challenges, I would totally do that for you. All right. I would love that I'd be like, This is so good. Because you would make me think outside of the box as well, because I do know your Ashtanga practice is so wonderful. It's so beautiful. And I know that I can challenge you. Whereas somebody else that comes in I would have to assess them in a different manner. Understood. Understood. What's the wackiest thing you've seen? A Pilates of WoW, Pilates? Someone calling their classical Pilates, classical Pilates and then just going way off the music and he and weights and oh, no, I have no problem if you want to. I just want to make sure somebody's being safe. Yeah, so I probably the I've seen so many. I mean, I'm just curious. I would just love to know what like would you know, according to the Pilates world, what's like, oh my gosh, what are they doing over there? What? Like what? Yeah, there's plenty of that. Probably the craziest thing that I've seen is hula hoops. Hula Hoops? Yeah, I don't understand is going just taking it into a whole new direction shaking it. You're going out? Well love it. I have not seen a hoop yoga class yet. I'm sure there's a willow loop yoga class somewhere, too. Yes. Isn't it a funny thing, how we have to blend everything into something like instead of just enjoying Pilates, or yoga, we have to now turn it into adding things in that don't know many different things. Yeah. Okay. And I'm all supportive. Like I understand. I appreciate that. Yeah, that wants to Yeah, explored that, that's great. But I like that you're really trying to with uphold the classical element, especially that you're calling it a classical class, and therefore you're holding to that that's, uh, I really appreciate that. Thank you. That's valuable, you know, and that we could come to your class and, and then walk out with the understanding that Oh, that was a classical mat Pilates and be very clear about it. It wasn't question. We're not question too much. I do like that about the classical methods yet. I think that is something that's very similar. You know, I like I studied Ashtanga as well. So when I went to someplace, and they were like, Oh, no strong class. And I was like, but is it really not like? Yeah, but is it really that? Right? And you can say what it is? And I'm like, No. And so that's kind of the struggles that are there and that are real. Yeah. I hear Yeah. I want to keep the integrity of any of our methods. I think that's the most important thing is to keep the integrity of it and keep it alive. For sure. If anyone that is listening has been practicing Pilates as appreciation for Pilates and they're wanting to become a Pilates instructor. What type of advice would you give them? Do your homework do your homework? Yeah, just keep practicing practice. And go and keep practicing. And what if you were to go take a Pilates training? Where would you go currently what what is where do I go? Who do I can I study with you? Are you do you train people? I train? I train teachers? Sure. But if it was me and I was my my love is classical. But I think it has so much to do with the teacher. So I think with it you finding a teacher that you connect with? Absolutely. So my teacher when I had a very strong background already in Pilates I'd been doing it for so many years in 2010 When I finally connected with him and found out that that was Lawrence Hayward got it is in Cannes, he was in Canada. And I think after I connected with him, my mind was blown. And it was sometimes just takes that certain teacher there's a couple of teachers in New York that and anytime I am up there and I revisit them, I will always find them. And I spoke to a teacher yesterday. That's a mentor has been She's a phenomenal teacher. And she is much more. What's the word that I'm looking for? She's much more an intuitive teacher. So she'll really pay attention to the body. And I'll go back to her any time because I really appreciate that structure. Yeah. And that's what she has to offer. So I think if anybody, there's a new teacher ever, I think, understand what it is that you want from your practice. Yeah, what it is that you want to teach and put out into the world? That's a great place to start. But you have to be clear on that, and then seek out different teachers and see what sticks for you. Yeah, yeah. Good answer. I know that for you listening might not be local here and Juno Beach and or the surrounding area? Is it possible that you'd be open Dale to me using the live stream at the same time that you're teaching the in studio class? So it's something we can discuss for sure. All right, cool. So someone listening is interested in studying with Dale reached out to us and we will set the live stream up to make that an option? That's cool. I'm curious as we're getting closer toward I want to be respectful of your time and kind of head toward closing our conversation. What did I miss? What question did I miss out? On? What what what else do we need to know either about you and or your history? Or something about Pilates or ControlLogix? That I didn't we did not touch upon? Do you feel like there's any other pertinent tidbits of info out so many, you know, the second I walked out while I'm sitting, I felt like it was really well rounded and wonderful. And I'm just really appreciate the time, and reaching out and connecting and allowing me to have a space to express something that is desperately so truly still low. After 23 years of teaching. I still love it so much. And every day, we're blessed to do what we do. And I'm sure you can feel that you share the same sentiments about that. Oh, absolutely. And I'm so glad that you came in and started practicing here. I remember the first time I saw you pull up on your electric bike. And you had your yoga mat on your over your shoulder and and you came in with such enthusiasm and excitement for practice. And right and even the fact that you mentioned that having lived in New York City for so long and just like you're so happy just to like be cruising around on your bicycle and not even needing a car. Oh, love that. Yeah. And then I saw you walking down the beach one day, and I'm like, Oh, she's really active. She's like, I keep seeing jail everywhere. Just like walking around. As much as Listen, that's part of their practice, too. Right? Yeah, our walks every day and it's our our work becomes a moving meditation. I definitely think that that's what my mat and my practice is for me it is a moving meditation. And I do hold on to that. Even in my daily life as I'm out walking, doing my errands or doing whatever I'm doing beach time, for sure. Always an opportunity to do the standing 100 or anything else. That's great. Yeah, good point. Good point. Well, thank you so much for joining so much for having me. You're welcome. I can't wait to take class with you. Absolutely. I can't wait to have you on the mat. Looking forward to it. Thank you. Thank you. Native yoga podcast is produced by myself. The theme music is dreamed up by Bryce Allen. If you liked this show, let me know if there's room for improvement. I want to hear that too. We are curious to know what you think and what you want more of what I can improve. And if you have ideas for future guests or topics, please send us your thoughts to info at Native yoga center. You can find us at Native yoga center.com. And hey, if you did like this episode, share it with your friends, rate it and review and join us next time