Joe Taft ~ Unpacking Mythology: The Hidden Layers of Yoga Stories

Joe Taft is a seasoned yoga instructor based in Asheville, North Carolina. With a professional background in kayaking, Joe transitioned into yoga to manage his back pain from the sport's physical strain. He initially trained under Mary Kay West and was deeply involved in Anusara Yoga, where he achieved full certification. Joe's practice combines various yoga philosophies and physical movements to create a balanced and harmonious practice for his students.

Visit Joe on his website: https://joetaftyoga.com/
Follow him on IG: https://www.instagram.com/joe_taft_yoga/

Key Takeaways:

• Transition from Kayaking to Yoga: Joe Taft discusses how the physical strain from professional kayaking led him to yoga for pain relief and holistic healing.
• Influences and Training: Joe's initial training with Mary Kay West and his involvement with Anusara Yoga helped shape his teaching philosophy.
• Philosophy and Spirituality: The conversation touches on Joe's balancing of his Christian upbringing with non-dual Tantra philosophies, offering a unique perspective on spiritual practices.
• The Role of Mythology: Joe emphasizes the importance of mythology in understanding consciousness and self-awareness through stories and practices.

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Chapters

• 5:00 Joe Taft's Journey from Professional Kayaking to Yoga |
• 10:00 From Fundamentalist Christianity to Yoga: A Journey of Spiritual Connection |
• 15:00 From Kayaking Adventures to Yoga for Pain Relief |
• 20:30 Journey from YMCA Yoga Classes to Advanced Anusara Practice
• 25:30 The Rise and Fall of a Charismatic Yoga Teacher
• 30:30 Rediscovering Yoga Through Diverse Practices and Personal Growth
• 35:30 The Power of Mythology and Yoga in Personal Growth |
• 40:30 Embracing Goddess Energies in Modern Spiritual Practice |
• 45:30 Navigating Family Conversations and Finding Common Ground |
• 50:30 Consciousness, Destruction, and Celebrating Life Through Yoga |
• 55:30 Exploring Non-Dual Philosophy Through Gods and Goddesses |

Transcript

0:33

Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast. So happy you are here. My goal with this channel is to bring inspirational speakers to the mic in the field of yoga, massage, bodywork and beyond. Follow us @nativeyoga and check us out at nativeyogacenter.com All right, let's begin. Hello, welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast. I am your host, Todd McLaughlin. Today. I bring you your guest, Joe Taft. Wow. I'm not going to say a lot. What I'm going to say is you got to look him up. Go to joetaftyoga.com. Follow him on Instagram@joe_taft_yoga. He puts a lot of time and effort into his posts. He goes deep. And he also keeps it fun and light. So happy you are here. Remember joetaftyoga.com Let's begin. I'm so honored and excited to have this opportunity to meet and speak with Joe Taft. Joe, thank you so much for joining me today. Thanks for having me. It's really an honor. I got introduced to you via Andrew Jones and you live in Asheville, North Carolina I believe? Am I right? I do. Yeah, I live in Asheville. And right now I'm sitting in kind of looking over downtown. It's awesome. Yeah, it's beautiful. For those of you listening if you want to have a look on our YouTube channel, you have an incredible tall trees, green trees behind you shafts of light are coming down to the trees over your shoulder. It's very picturesque. I love Asheville. How long have you lived in Asheville? I lived in Atlanta, I really moved to Asheville. I bought my first house here in 2001. So before I was kayaking a lot, I was a professional kayaker. So I was kind of in and out of it. I traveled around a lot. And I bought a house here in 2001. So that was the year that I really considered myself, you know, living here, even though I was still a little bit on the road. Gotcha. So you're a professional kayaker. Well that's, that can be a little bit of a stretch. I kayaked for a living and I made money doing it. I don't know if you could call that a professional I think so I think once you start generating income off of your passion, very little income, just so you know. It wasn't like the it wasn't like going for a Wall Street job. It was more of a love what you do type of job. I've always done that. Yeah. Just from a child early, I was always doing well. I'm curious, doing what I love to do. So that's cool. I'm curious, Well, where did you grow up? And then what was the transition from where you grew up to the first time you got into kayak? Yeah, so I grew up in eastern North Carolina. And I'm 51 years old now. So that was, you know, in the 70s. And it was a very, is, you know, it was in the Bible Belt. And so I had this opportunity to experience you know, fundamentalist Christian Christianity, and which I think really shaped my way to become a yoga teacher. Because my family really well use the word religion, they really use the word religion, as the staple of life, the foundation of what's important, and so I learned that, you know, growing up, and I feel really fortunate about that my mom was this spiritual practitioner, she when she passed away, she had close to 1000 people at her funeral because she was this real staple in the community. And and I didn't realize that at the time, I didn't even realize it till probably till after she passed away seven, eight years ago that that influenced me so much. She influenced me so much through her religious practice. Yes, you know, like she was praying in the morning when I would get up and things like that. So I think that really influenced me a lot to move towards, towards practice like yoga. I can't tell you how many everything you've said thus far, I'm really happy to hear because the fact that you are acknowledging how important it is to have family value, and you know, some connection of something bigger and that we that we can potentially trust and believe in, and that also, though you embrace a culture or all all different religious viewpoints, that yoga may or may not present, because I do find sometimes that maybe if we're in a certain element of the Bible Belt, that maybe someone might say, oh, boy, I don't think you should be doing yoga. But you're seeing the connection between all faiths, Sandor spirituality as being connected, I'm guessing, I am I see all very similar. Although I had a lot of things I had to work through. By growing up in that kind of, it was kind of a black or white mentality, where there was right and it was wrong. And, and I think that was good. Again, I think that was really good for me to experience but now I study, like non dual Tantra. And, and we don't really believe in right or wrong, we just believe in. There's what we like and what we don't like. Or, well, let me let me rephrase that right or wrong. It's not the best terminology, let me say, good or bad. That's really the better terms to use. We don't really believe that things are good or bad. Because I mean, how many times has something happened to you? And you're like, oh, my gosh, that was the worst thing that ever happened to me. And then like, two months later, you're like, oh, my gosh, that was the best thing that ever happened to me. So true. So so we just liked things, or we don't like them. I definitely think there's two correct my first wording I definitely think pairs. You know, I believe in the Yamas in the neon Do you know I believe in ethical precepts, and you know, it's best to act, the compassion, with truthfulness and all those things. So. So yeah, I really appreciate you, you realizing my tone when I speak about that. So yeah, thanks so much. That's cool. And you said eastern North Carolina. So I'm thinking either Outer Banks, or somewhere close, close to Yeah, not on the Outer Banks, but about an hour from the Outer Banks. So yeah, I went to the beach a lot as a child. And so yeah, that's cool. And I'm, I'm 50 I am also a 70s. Baby. And I grew up here in Florida, right? Yeah, beach, and seven, the 70s. Just to reminisce a little bit here, Georgia, what a time period, you know, to be on a bicycle and just having all this abundance of nature around and, you know, parents just being like, well just make sure home for dinner, you know, and he just took off and climb trees and went to the ocean and in the rivers. And, I mean, and we can still do that now. And it's still all here now. So I'm not saying that that's not here, but it was just an amazing time. It really was an amazing time. I really enjoyed growing up. That's cool. Pretty relatively small town and have it Woods close by and all that. Yeah. So then kayaking. When was the first kayak adventure? Yeah, so my dad would bring me up to the mountains of North Carolina when I was a child and we would go down river in a canoe, like a whitewater canoe, you know, and we'd fall out sometimes that I felt like it was quite dangerous. And then it and then in that process, I decided to when I went to college, I decided to live in western North Carolina, where we would come in the summer sometimes. So that got me like into mountain sports. Yeah. And that's when I started really cocking snow skiing, I'd already snow ski a little bit, but snow ski and kayaking and, and I started traveling and you know, really embracing what I call eco sports, like eco jock sports, you know, like, like, where you're just gravity type sports, and especially kayaking. That was like my big one. So it's phenomenal. Like it's like absolutely mind blowing to like, go down a rapid and learn how to do it enough that you feel like you're dancing with the water and go off waterfalls. And it's really oh my gosh, it's just so intense. But it was super hard on my body. That it was very, very hard on my body. And that's what that's ultimately what initially got me into yoga is my back hurt really badly. I was like 25 years old, my back was excruciating. Like there were mornings when I couldn't get out of bed or I had to get out really slowly. And that process kind of got me into yoga. Wow, I gotta kind of warm up my hips here a little bit before I start moving. Definitely before I get in my boat. cuz I know I'm gonna hurt later, later in the day, I'm gonna really hurt. Yeah, not only I thought it was from the impact of always impacting really hard, but I learned later it was the position and just the way that my musculature was building from sitting in a boat so much. And so I started stretching, you know, I would smoke a bunch of pot, and I would find a spot in the sun. And then I would just move my body and, and I did that for years, not really, with a teacher just trying to figure it all out. And that's really what got me into yoga. That's cool. And so I am curious, though, because I love watching kayaking, I've only had the experience of whitewater adventures in relation to North Carolina, just getting an inner tube and in Cherokee, and just going down, going down the rivers and just having so much fun, but not to the level like what you're talking where, you know, you're in a kayak, like, you know, potentially going off the edge of like a miniature waterfall or something like, yeah. What are some of the biggest gnarliest rivers you've had a chance to traverse? Well, there's, there's a lot of, you know, when it rains here, all these rivers fill up with water. So there's a lot of options. Yeah. You know, there's quite a few that I've only done once. But there's a river because of the craziness of it because of the danger. The danger is no, no, because it rains, so many things to do. And you just like, yeah, go down one. And then you're like, Oh, that was pretty cool. But you have your favorites, you know, jumping around. So when it's not raining, there's a dam release River near here. It's called the Green River. And it's a creek, it's one of those things that normally just fills up with water when you're when it rains, but this one has a dam at the top. So they release it every day, like not every day, but frequently at like eight in the morning. So it's like you get this really incredible cool experience of going down a super steep like waterfalls, everything and, and that's probably why I ended up moving to Asheville. Creek because like always has water in it, so to speak. And so I just love that river. So that's why I moved here. That's cool. That's why I ended up staying here. You could say that makes sense. That makes Yeah, yeah. And was your first official yoga class? Where when? With who? Yeah, so I, I since I was on the road a lot. I started figuring out that I could go to like a YMCA and take a yoga class. And I wish I'd already been doing a bunch of yoga already. Right. And I mean, that caught it stretching, you know, whatever. But, but it was quite yogic actually, sometimes I would like candles and like, get my nervous system to down regulate, because I figured all that, that felt better and on. And then, so I would go to just these YMCA classes. Well, once I was back in Asheville, and I went to a YMCA class, and the teacher at the end of class was moving away. And that had been her class like seven or eight times. She was phenomenal. She was just really powerful. And I and I turned to her and I said, it was been it was so nice, you know, being at your classes. And I wish I could keep going. She goes, Well, what you need to do is you need to go to my teacher's class. And her name is Mary Kay west. So is this southern woman named Mary Kay West. And, and I did, I found her she had a little cute studio down by the river area here in Asheville. And I started studying with her and she was like, this little southern woman was powerhouse yoga, not like power, like, I mean, it was physical, but she studied all the limbs of yoga, she was a real yoga practitioner. And she really turned me on to, to yoga as a whole spectrum practice. And then I and I studied with her for a while and, and she was the kind of teacher that can really take me on as a as a, you know, as a student. And then at some point, I said, I want to really learn more. And she goes, Well, I'm studying and mood system of yoga thought of Ansara. And this was in May 1999. And I said, What's that she goes, Well, I studied with this, you know, the system that some of you might be familiar with. John friend founded it. And, and then what she turned me on to that I really became a student of aneesoft. And I studied on ASR for quite a few years until about 2012. I was fully certified in 2007. And it was really quite powerful because my body was feeling a little better, a good bit better. And because it was an alignment based system, and I had on my own I was just studying intuitive type movement. And so I got really into, wow, if I put my body in this position, these muscles release and I feel better and at that But tired. That's really what I needed. I needed somebody who understood the body really well. Yes. And could could teach me how to like, for lack of a better word align, right? Yes. So amazing. I remember I was in Southern California and a friend of mine went and practice with John friend. And he came back and he was lit up with excitement. And I guess, in some way, shape or form, John had called him up onto the stage and had gotten in and I think it was like, Where are you going to Hunter Manassa Anna and you catch your back foot and go into like the echo Potter. Roger Kopitar Sinha, catch. I don't know the Sanskrit name of that poses. What is the name of that? I don't know. Like, yeah, but but something super deep, that he was like, not even. Not even ready for at all. But it wasn't didn't get injured. And he was just like, I don't know how I got into that position. And how he got me into it. And I was he was like, as I was blown away, he was just so on fire from the experience. Would you Did you ever have any of those sort of moments? Oh, many, many. Yeah. Many of those moments? Yeah. Cool. That was kind of his gift was like really infusing a whole classroom or an individual which kind of infused the whole classroom was shocking. Did you feel he had a certain special Mojo with the yoga that's across the board that people that study with him kind of had that similar sort of admiration for him? Yeah, it was a real, it was a real. It was a real shock, the awakening type of experience. And I love that man, I was a adrenaline addict at the time. I've been running big waterfalls. And then I was kind of finding which I mean, I look back at that now. And I was like, probably not the best idea to trade in a sense and addiction for an addiction and yoga. But that's, but that's what drew me is charismatic personality. You know, feeling just so much Shakti in my body so much prana alive. That's what he he brought me sometimes I would sleep for days after the workshops. And that was, I was young, I was young enough that I was okay. And but yeah, it was really, really powerful to be around a teacher like that. How did how did the fallout around John friend affect you? Yeah. And so then the Fallout, Fallout happened, he started kind of acting outside of the domain of what you might call ethical. And, and that was like, a really big deal. You know, some of the top teacher started kind of dropping off. And then people started asking questions, and, and so and I kind of stuck with it for a little while, really wanted to, I even called him and we chat. And he's like, Yeah, I made some mistakes. And he seemed really humble. And so I kind of hung around for a while, but then his actions weren't really aligning with, with what he had said to me on the phone. So. So the Fallout was a really big deal for a lot of people. And for me, the the biggest part of the Fallout was that I had a global community. You know, I could go somewhere and study yoga, like New York City, for example, I could go there, and there'd be like, 200 people there. And I wouldn't know like 100 of them. And some of them would be from Australia, or wherever. So had this really big global community, which I, I feel was very powerful. And then I had these teaching principles that I taught from and, and all that kind of shattered it. So I had to rediscover myself as a yoga teacher. Yes. And I did. And I went in and I got into, I studied different things. I studied Pilates for a while I studied. I studied weight training, because I'm really skinny. I'm really flexible and really skinny. So I study weight training, which was really good for me. And I studied some other methods of yoga before I had studied like Ashtanga and so many other things. But But yeah, I got to kind of branch out, in a sense. And that was a really powerful time for me. That's so cool, really, really powerful time for me. That's cool that now with a little bit of time, to be able to look back and the way you said initially in our conversation about seeing things that might seem bad. Now you look back and you go, that actually was really good. And it's it's neat to hear how you've had enough time to process all that and the growth process that occurred because of what seemed tragic. And now you're in a better place for it. It sounds like oh, yeah, I mean, to take you know, I don't really believe that with my upbringing or Americans. I don't think Like, we work well with the kind of the Guru model. But I'm really fortunate that I got to actually experience that. Like, I know what that feels like. And I really feel like a very authentic level. I know what that feels like. And and again, I don't, I don't think it really works in our society the way we were brought up. Or at least I'll speak, let me say, I don't feel like it works for me and the way that I was brought up. And so but I did get to experience it. And it was like, so cool. You know, because you learn so much when you when you trust, I had a few teachers really that I trusted this way, but I trusted so much that I learned so fast. And I would not undo that. Although I had to undo a lot of the things that I did learn. So in that was suffering, and learning something that's really deep in your system. Is is is is I mean, to me, it's like definition suffer. Well said. So, so but I'm really happy that I went through that. Yeah, I learned about Shakti too, you know, I really have a really intimate relationship because I learned Tantra there, right? That's where I really learned Tantra, not only from him, but I learned from Douglas Brooks, Carlos Tomita, Sally Kempton, these are all people, he encouraged us to study with Bill Mahoney. I mean, these guys are bad assets. And, and I had an I dove deep into that. And so I really learned the philosophy of tantra there and that stuck with me man that back to me growing up in a religious environment, I'm all of a sudden learning a system. That's the opposite of what I learned growing up on some level. But the guts were really the same, you know, let go of some let go of your individuality and trust in something greater than yourself. I mean, come on, like to really, like I grew up like kind of having to believe that. But now I was all situated in a situation where I was like, feeling in my body, the pelvis, honoring, like, the way that the energy in my body was pulsing. And I could sense that I was like, Oh, my gosh, this is like, not something I have to like, believe in. And this is something I can, like, I can feel the pulse of it. And there's an order to it. I can like, play with it. You know, when my pelvis is heavy, and my spine is lifted, my heart tends to open and I am like, more open to the, to the celebration of life, you know. So I'm so grateful. Just so grateful for that whole journey, you know, and you communicated that really well. Since that, nice job. Do you have please? So can I ask you a question? Of course, because I don't really know your yoga that well, please, I know, you know, Andrew, like, can you tell me just a little bit and that might help deepen our conversation? Yeah, I can speak to what is your background? And maybe your listeners knows you can give me a shorter answer or a longer answer, whichever you think is appropriate for your podcast for your podcast. Thank you. I'll try to keep it short. But things that I feel like we have in common, I grew up surfing and I traveled the world and got a chance to surf incredible places. So I can also attest to the thrill of gravity dropping down into a situation where you have split second time to make a move that will determine your reality with either suffering or, or, or some suka some sweetness, you know, yeah, it's split moment, right, like big, you know, big heavy barreling waves and so, I love that that's why I'm not a big kayaker, but I feel you on that. And that played a big part in my discovery of yoga was I had moved back to Florida and Florida is not known for its you know, barreling incredible reef break waves and so I started practicing Bikram yoga. Initially when I when I when I was 18, I got introduced to Krishna consciousness and I started hanging out with Hari Krishna devotees. So I initially chanting Hari Krishna mantra was my initial yoga practice but then I started doing Bikram and like the intensity of the heat and the challenge of it and being able to be physical and feel that energy in a room without needing to worry about the conditions the wind the sun. I just was like this is it you know, I can feel surfing in my body anywhere anytime. So I feel like I got so hooked on it started practicing massage therapy as well and really falling in love with anatomy. And then just from there, I've just kind of I keep studying and and seeking and practicing. My wife and I have had our yoga studio here in Juno Beach for the last 18 years together and then we had co owned a Bikram studio in San Diego for Three and a half years prior to that. So we've been teaching together for 20 something years. And so we did go to Indian stay with batavi Joyce, kind of like how there was a big fallout with the Bikram world and and prior to all that I thought, well let me go to Indians, they taught me Joyce. And then there was a big fallout in that world. So I've had multiple Fallout situations too. And I can say that I've grown so much and learn so much from that as well, even though at the moment, it felt like a dark night of the soul type of questioning, you know, so I'm now currently and I can also attest the back pain. I'm relearning everything all over again, due to some degenerative disc stuff. And I'm really in love with it again, you know, I've had so many ups and downs over the years of just being absolutely infatuated, and then having questions like, What have I done to myself, and what am I doing myself? And so I'm completely enthralled with what yoga brings, and how it just has been such an incredible tool for my own personal self discovery. And it's just it's still going and I and I'm just last night, we got a group together, we're right near the beach, we went down and watch the full moon. It was the flower moon and had such a incredible community experience last night that I was driving home going. I don't think life could get any better. I don't think it could I think I think this is it. I don't I'm not Yeah, so I really Yeah, I'm in a good place right now, thankfully. But I've been doing this podcast for four years listeners, you probably have heard me, you know, complain a lot, two years. But right now, this is a I'm in a good place. Thank you for asking. What did that? What kind of thoughts that prompt for you? Yeah, I love that we have this similar background of really a an embrace of life. From an early age, I think, real. I mean, if you've traveled around surfing, you're really like, you're really you're really a seeker when you're, you know, you're kind of traveling the way you're, you're kind of seeking. Yes, you're like seeking 100% A high I think at some level, true. And, and, and then and to get into yoga, which, especially as we age is a way to like, embrace that high. But but make it a connection to something greater than yourself. Because otherwise, it's just gonna burn out. You're gonna burn out in anything that you do. It's a great if you don't make the connection to something higher. I agree. I agree. I agree. You know, I love love our parallels. Thank you. I know, I'm so excited. This is amazing. I you had made mentioned prior to us hitting the record button that you're offering a mythology course. So I'm curious, what myths have you and or do you currently draw from? And see parallels with your own life? And what the myth what that myth tells? Yeah, so I so just to back up a little bit, I believe in I believe in mythology, I think it's, you know, similar to like a yoga text. I just for simplicity sake, I categorize a method, very similar to yoga text. It's packed, it's packed with knowledge, it's packed with teachings. I like to think of a yoga texts like a sutra, or a mythological story as a zip file. They're kind of going extinct. But you know, like, you'd be open, you double click on the zip file, it opens up and it's like, 1000s of documents, you know. So that's kind of how I see a yoga text. And I also see mythology that way. And the piece that I love about the mythology is that I see mythology as your dream, our dream world, which is our unconscious, like our dreams kind of come up from our unconscious. And mythology is telling the story of our own consciousness and bringing it up. And I mean, what happens in the mythology you know, Hahnemann like tears, his heart open. And that's kind of like something that happens in your dream. Like you're, you have these intense experiences of like ripping your heart open. And you can do that, like in a yoga practice. Like you can take your attention like into your heart and you can almost like connect the conscious mind with the subconscious mind. Because you were told a story. And maybe you didn't felt that story in your body. We sometimes call that an awakening. When you're not thinking but you really sense the story. The story starts to leave but start to feel like you're in a dream state in your body. And you open Your heart, for example, which is really, like not a good idea if you don't have a skill set called Yoga, right, if you don't have a toolset to handle that opening, but if you're studying Yoga, you have that skill set, you know what it's like to like really fall deeply in love with nature are deeply in love with another human being, and you're completely okay with it. Because that's me falling in love is like, so scary. I mean, whether it's another person or it's like, even in love with your meal can be like super scary if you're open on that level. But you have the skill set of yoga, to be able to like live life that fully. That to me is mythology. So I get that subconscious to come out. So you're you're not living in the dark, so to speak, you're like bringing all of yourself to the experience of life. Well said. Thank you. Amazing. And so you're a big fan of Joseph Campbell. Yeah, because I love the guy love Joseph Campbell. His books are incredible. I mean, that when it first came, Hero hero with 1000 faces no one's ever read that one. But yeah, absolutely amazing. His is a Bach sheesham. Brahman, did you read that one that was incredible of his journeys through India. Oh my gosh, he's so deep. So then incredible, which if we were to draw from a philosophy rooted in India, what one and I love that you brought upon him on because of the Ramayana has so many beautiful stories and I love the element of how devoted Hanuman is and this this perfection of devotee and and, and I'd also love the story of, you know, Hahnemann has been cursed and can't remember, he can do anything. And the idea that part chance he doesn't remember in an hour, and he doesn't remind it until he's reminded it which I feel like it's a reminder to us that we often doubt ourselves and, and that potentially we can remind ourselves that we can achieve probably a lot more than than we really believe we can. What miss what are speaking to you these days? Well, I am about to teach a six week series. So it's like it as I been doing for about 20 years, I've been teaching the six week series where people take six classes in a row so the information can build. Because I find that to be much more powerful than, you know, you've probably figured out when we teach a public yoga class, there could be new people there. And in the classes here can be quite big. So there could be four or five new people that I've never met in class. So I have to kind of start over every time but over a series I get to kind of unpack, unpack something in my next six week series is, is the gods of yoga, and Ottoman Ganesha Shiva. Because the last six week series I taught was on the goddesses. And I'm a big fan of, of Goddess worship. And the way that I like to define that, is that is that everything in this world has like a flavor, a sense. Everything has like a flavor, it has like a flavor that we like, it's like blooming and blossoming. And it's, and we're just like, drawn to that blooming or blooming and blossoming. And we might call that machs. Me. And because that's what Lakshmi represents, like the full manifestation of beauty and its climatic form. And then you have, for example, times in your life where you're like, Oh, my God, this is really tough. You know, my community has been torn apart or have lost a teacher or my yoga practices is drying up now or something and that those challenging times could be called Durga. Durga is the one who who you step into for the power to be like, rejuvenated and reborn, so to speak, and to fight the battle of getting pulled into the internet. Like the internet, you know, like, Oh, my God, I'm like spending too much time on the internet. I need Durga you know, I like how I like I just, I just read this thing by threats the other day, and it says, because he goes pewters cool. It's cool to get on the computer. Don't let the computer get on you. Oh, yeah. You know, it's cool. It's cool to use the computer. Just don't let the computer use you. Oh, yeah. Yeah, so, so that would be like Durga when you're feeling like getting overwhelmed with I'm at 12 stepper. So I have a background of addiction. And so so I have to invoke this Goddess energy called Durga. And then and then you have like that like a year in your really deep dark times of your life when you're unsure and you can't see where you're going and you feel like you're just completely broken down. We call that call like, right? The Goddess. She's the the dark ones. She's, she's the one. It's like your compost road riding in your backyard. And she's the she's you lying in bed at night going. I don't know if I can actually deal with my next what I have going on in my life right now completely torn down. She's like the hag, you know. And you are that at times, you are all these energies. And so I'm a big fan of, of Goddess study, Goddess worship. That's a great explanation. Yeah, thank you for that. Yeah, we honor all the goddesses. You know, in a sense, we honor all the parts of ourselves in this in this tradition. So amazing. Amazing. How do you reconcile your childhood upbringing under monotheism, with a passion and a love for it? Am I wrong and same polytheism, if that's appropriate, can at least some depends on how you know, I have my hands like drawing away from one another if you're just listening, like how far on either side of the spectrum of those two things. And yeah, and the way that I grew up in the way that I study now are quite different. But in some ways, they're really the same. I just think they're just that one. They're like, if you know, in this tradition, we call Shiva, that which is like holds every tank. And then Shakti is that which is turning and changing. Shiva on one end is like the stillness, of the stillness of a still mind, in a, a room, an empty room, that nobody's in there, but you walk into the room, and you can sense the stillness and your mind is calm, and there's like, you're so present, there's like no thinking, that in this tradition, in my tradition, or the way, at least I think about it, that will be Shiva. And Shakti would be the turning and the churning, and all the changes and all the, the, the, the cycles of nature. And, and so the Christianity was just way more towards the Shiva side, it was this this one force that is in their tradition, governing everything, and you just have to align with that, you know, you are a sinner in a sense, and you just have to, which is cool. I mean, they're just saying, hey, surrender, first, you're such a sinner that you just have to surrender just like the addicts they have the all the addicts say you're an addict. I realized I totally screwed up. And after recognize that before I can, like move towards Shiva. Move towards the stillness. So I have no problem with all the systems. Yeah, yeah, but But I definitely am. year towards the other side of things of the Shakti side, which is the highs and the lows, and the good and the bad. And I'm okay with all that now. That's cool. I'm curious, like, I'm just gonna paint a scenario and does some curious how you navigate this potential scenario, you go for a holiday meal with a family and extended family member and the extended family member starts to, you know, question you about your current outlook on life. And, and we'll just say that they are their outlook is of one idea and yours is here, and you're seeing that they're one in the same. And there's a spectrum. How do you strategize your responses and or your way of being authentic to who you are and what you feel but not engaging in a way that would cause the other person to feel like you're argumentative with them? Does that make sense? Was that a little too abstract or? No, that was very clear. Okay. In such a real life situation. I love that. I thought it was perfectly state. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. All right. So I try to find the similarities first. Good one, like backup, like big picture first. Step way back. It's just see if we can find some similarities. And then and a lot of times, you don't actually get a chance to talk about your differences in that as you have to be okay with that. So, all the ways in which, you know, we have a similar view, I think all people want to appreciate the gift of life and to appreciate maybe their belief system. And I think it's so great that people have belief systems. And so if if I believe there's only one thing because I'm a non duelist, I believe all the things that they have are within the big picture, at least all the things that they think about, believe in are part of the one. So I just try to find that one. That's first. Nice. And usually, that's really all that it leads to. Yeah. But if there's a deeper conversation, I'm also okay with an argument. If they want to, if they want to engage in a little deeper conversation, where there is some tension, then I think that's a really healthy part of life. Then, you know, I'll call that Durga has come to the table or whatever. That's what I was saying I saw concludes, right when he said, Yeah, yeah, so so. So I do try, my tendency is to stay on the positive side with family members. Or maybe like a yoga practitioner, I'm okay with having a deeper dialogue, because I know it will, you know, Scab up over time. But a family member, I usually just stay with the similarities. And anytime it gets to be a deeper conversation, and we start to find our differences, and if there's tension in that differences, I try to keep coming back to the similarities. And so it stays. stays. Family, like it says, we feel we stay. We feel like we stay family the whole time. Nice. Because I mean, have you ever argue with someone and gotten your point across really clearly, but it only push them the other direction? Yeah, I can't even hear you. I can't even hear you, too. You're on the same side. Yeah, that's good. Points. Is the problem with politics. Now everybody's like, their statements, in my opinion, are statements that push the other side away. Yeah. And I mean, I don't expect them to be able to, to, I don't expect a politician to be able to, you know, find the big picture between people because that's not their gift. But I think us as yoga practitioners, we have the we have the I mean, we have the ability, a yoga teacher is basically somebody who's hopefully gotten clear enough that their philosophy and clear enough their words that they can communicate in a way that there's a connection first. Again, because nobody will, nobody will hear the other side won't hear the other two sides won't hear each other and less, it's from connection. Great point. How does a non duelist? And or how do you view the turmoil in the global picture? Like if we watch the news, we could potentially tune into a story that seems fairly scary, like, threatening, and all sorts of kind of heaviness. I'm curious, when you see that, does it affect you? Or are you able to kind of see the dirt guy in the eye? Are you are you saying, Are you saying that? Seeing like in a certain situation? That's challenging? Are you saying like, the big the great unraveling were experienced? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if I turn on and I see a war over here, and a war over there, oh, I see. And like, a lot of turmoil, like a lot, a lot of differences of opinion, a lot of I guess I'm enjoying the way that well, when you said the Shiva and the Shakti in the balance of the duality of the stillness with the churning and then like you're saying the ability to recognize the Kali the destruction, the the real, our darker side, our our heavier side, and then maybe Nazism or darker but just are are Yeah, you know, but then somehow appreciating like that ability to actually appreciate it. So I guess on some of I could look at all these tumultuous scenarios in the world and see that it is somehow is serving a higher purpose or a greater purpose. Like it's, it's actually okay. Even though it's so hard to stomach. Is that so hard? It's so hard to stomach. It really is hard to stomach, isn't it? I mean, I don't know. It's just me. Yeah, yeah. And I would love to hear your answer also, because obviously, you're so steeped. But yeah, I think It is hard to stomach. And you know, I just believe that consciousness is expanding. That's, that's the nature of it. And I believe that it expands in a way that it can get into an experience of itself. A lot of times that experience of itself is through really intense experiences, like destruction. And destruction is, is that an exam is almost an example of expansiveness. Like, that's right. Absolutely not. Even though it's still expanding, even though it might appear to be an involution. Or a closing in or like an in like, yeah, I see. All right, yeah. So we're, you know, I mean. I mean, you know, the foundation of the philosophy that I study as consciousness wants to just experience itself. And and the intensity of life, you know, give such a mirror, I mean, how many times we turn on a movie, and it's dramatic, we want to be want to get a reflection of ourselves. That's not because that's because who we are, that doesn't have anything to do with us as individuals, is because it's, that's the, in the DNA of consciousness or self. Cool. So, so, I mean, we're just acting out consciousnesses journey. Now we can steer it, we can steer it some which is cool. So now we're talking about the practice of yoga and some level we can start this, we can start to organize the prana and organize the consciousness in a way that it turns back and gets a clear image of Shiva stillness. And in that process, we're not controlling, we're just co participating in a way that maybe we don't participate so much in the destruction. Now, are we Yeah, of course, we're all we're all participating in the destruction because it's the journey we're on right now as civilization. But I think we can, feels good to not participate as much as we have, we have say so over hopefully, because the, the journey and this unraveling of consciousness is especially to really see the truth. Truth is kind of the foundation, in my opinion of the practice. So in the journey of trying to be conscious, or to see nature in its truest form, we have more say, so over how our own consciousness or how consciousness unravels inside of us. And so this is this is, you know, our work. We do, we do have some say, so we can choose that life is a blessing beyond deeper than our recognition. That is, that's my approach. And we can also recognize that it's the most intense suffering that anybody could ever imagine. So we do have enough say, so in this unraveling of consciousness, then we can make that choice. And I choose the former, I like us that life is this delicate, delicate experience that we should celebrate fully matter of fact, I think about it, if we celebrate it more fully, we're going to actually have less we're going to create less destruction. Yeah, I think we can we can create it in a way that there we can, we can celebrate in a way there is this destruction and we are doing that. But that is that is my message. My message is my mission statement in my yoga classes is let's come together. And in through the process of consciousness unraveling, let's celebrate life as much as possible. Nice. Yeah, you made mention of I liked the word that you use to describe the Goddesses with flavor. That was cool. You're gonna give a course on the gods? Is there a juxtaposition to flavor that is a balance point from the feminine and the masculine? Well, in my opinion, a God like Hanuman is in a sense, really a goddess. In this conversation, if Shiva is contracting, and going into the steel place than anything, we can really talk about anything that moves and we have to tell stories about it. It's, it's actually really a goddess. Oh, that's cool. So Hana mon was really a goddess, in a sense, because it's, he's changing the story like so. So goddess in, in my, in my opinion, as anything is moving towards the cycle and changing and Mother Nature's evolving, changing nature of things and moving towards the masculine and is is moving towards stillness and calm and quiet. So the, the universal, so to me anything where I'm talking about mythology is really talking about the goddess even if it's a god, that makes any sense it does it Almost makes sense because if you're talking, you're acting, which is movement, which would be goddess. That's right. If you were to not talk, then you would be moving toward the stillness, therefore lately on top of it, yeah. Yeah, you're helping me to say that again. You're helping me you're steering it perfectly to, to understand this. And I love this. I mean, I'm so fascinated by non dual philosophy, the more I meet people that are avidly engaging in this discourse, I'm just always in awe. I just in a it's incredible. So but what, what is philosophy? Are you steeped? Who? I guess my first thing that pops in my head that I want I'll I'll talk about a book that I'm currently reading. Yeah, I have not finished it all the way. But I'm gleaning a lot of insight. And it's called the case for God by Karen Armstrong. And she was a nun. She went down an atheist path. And now she's more in the middle and seeing all of that is CO cohabit. We can all cohabitate and she, she gives a bird's eye historical view of homeostatic homosapiens. History of religion around the world start going, going even pre well shamanic to Vedic upon Ashad interesting Christianity or Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Sufism, and just very well researched, very academic, but fascinating. So I guess, I guess I'm just my philosophy is to just keep listening, and just keep asking questions. And I love Socrates. I love the Greek philosophy. I love the Hindu mythology and philosophy. But I'm also I grew up Catholic, and I had a real turning of my back from all that when I started going toward the east, say, and I'm interesting, I'm just starting to have this reconnection, again, where I'm like, I want to, I want to know about all of it, I want to I want to accept and love all of it. I want to embrace all the prophets and all of the sinners. And just so and I think that aligns well with non dual philosophy, the more I traverse that non dual approach, and I but I, I feel like I've just reconnected with it a little bit when you said, consciousness wants to expand. And so I don't know, I just said just that makes perfect sense. To me, it seems to explain a way of helps me to make sense of what I'm seeing in my, my local environment, and then my global and my global perspective. But so thank you for asking. I'm curious what other what other you made a couple of mentions of Shiva, in the stillness, can you give us another gentle tour of other gods. And another thing I would like to talk about, just for a moment, since we're getting close to the end of our time, please, I'd like to talk about like the importance of practices like breath work and prana prana work and human and exercise and yes, please. Because I think like in a, in a, in a philosophy, or I think in any philosophy, or any any life, but just in the context of our conversation to to be able to kind of do what we're doing right now and have a deeper conversation. Or to embrace a non dual, like contract philosophy, which is quite dangerous. Because you're not, you know, you're not trusting in anything that's like, human like, in a sense, and and you're not really saying, hey, well, that's bad. I'm never going to do that. Or you have to be very, very careful. So now we're talking about like, where's the prana in your body? Is your pelvis settle? Like right now I'm so jazzed from the conversation. My pelvis was like, a little lifted right now. You know what I mean? It's like such a great conversation. We have this great little Shakti thing going on, you know, but you know, if we're not doing like, physical practices and like, integrating, like, I'm gonna have to get off the phone and might have to, like, do a couple of movements and, you know, breathe into my, my belly and, and ground out because like things can get away from us. So I want to just bring it back to that I am movement teacher, I really believe in, you know, sitting in meditation and making sure that my, the energy of my legs is down. But the majority of the time when I'm standing and sitting, my legs belong down to the earth and my spine lifts off, and that when that gets mixed up, you know, when my system gets mixed up, that we're all doing the skills, you know, we have the skills to bring balance and make the system harmonious. So we can, we can, like, be rooted in a, in some kind of philosophy, that's open minded. I mean, what do you think? I mean, on some level closed mindedness is that the human body is not balanced enough, that, you know, we have to believe in something so we get our balance from that have to like believe in this thing that's other than us. So I think really being in the body and being able to come into a place of equilibrium, equilibrium and integrate the heart experiences into our system that's really supports this kind of conversation that we're having. I mean, I know, you know, all of us, but I just think it's important for listeners to to like, have it said, I think you're right. I'm really glad you did that, because I was starting to get a little out there. And I think you're right, right. When you said that. Were his my breath. What is my energy doing right now? So true. And I like, do you remember when you were practicing, and at some point, somebody said, Oh, that yoga they're doing, it's just, it's just Western exercise. And it's not yoga. It's not yoga. It's like you're just Asana based, and it's not real yoga. So I love that you're bringing it back to the how important practices of observing body posture, breath, nervous system function. Absolutely. Right. Thank you. That was good. Yeah. Nice, little, nice little turn there. Thank you. For me, it's really important for me, because I'm really skinny and really a vata type. So I've had the blessing throughout my life of being able to have to really stay in stay kind of balance and a good one about a man Joe, you know, it's really, I absolutely one of my most favorite things to do is to do this to podcast and talk knowing that like we you and I are talking but in the back of the mind knowing that possibly somebody else is listening, and then you obviously aren't listening. So that it and then meeting when I met Andrew, and then I trust Andrew, I had a great, I really appreciate his vibe. Amazing. Him and Pam are awesome. Love that guy. And then and then to say, Andrew, can you introduce me to some people, and then to have him, introduce me to you, and then boom, right away, we can just jump right in and have all this common thread going on. That's a good point. That's a good point. We did just drop right. And I love that. And I think there's something just so freakin cool. I just love it. I'm so thankful, I really appreciate you taking some time out of your day, I know, during this earlier time for you a little more challenging. So thank you for bending on that one. And is there anything you know, I was like, I want to respect you. I do respect your time. And we both have a busy schedule. How can we conclude? What would be a good conclusion? We like to, I would like to say I think one thing is that I'm on Instagram, I don't do a lot of very minimum. But I give my theme each week I skipped some weeks, but I give my theme and there so if you're interested in like hearing, like a brief synopsis of what my classes I put a lot of effort into those posts. So you could follow that. And I also have the six week series coming up which is online or in person. So I actually forget that will be over but the but I would love to stay in touch but offered again off but you know, I do offer it all the time. It's all rolling or it'll be different material. But I'm always offering things so I'd love to have people you know, study with me basically. And then the other thing I'd like to say is just how much I enjoyed being here. I really appreciated this conversation and I felt like I felt like I made a friend which is super cool. I've really value intimacy so I felt like just the way you hold space allowed me to just really be open and and get to get to know you so a little bit so hope I believe we can have another conversation where I get to hear you speak a little bit more. Let's do that. Let's do that. And I remind me your IG handle your Instagram name. It's, it's just Jo underscore tact underscore yoga. Perfect. I am following you over there. And I'm going to make a more of a point to comment, read, meditate. And next time I come through Asheville because I have family close by to you guys in Greenville, Tennessee. I'm going to try to I already was trying to convince my wife when we come up. This summer, I was like, Tamra, is there any way I can just like take a day trip over to Asheville and go practice yoga with all these cool people? I'm meeting Oh, please. I would love to have you that would be cool, man. And maybe you know, happy kayaking, river kayaking, that would be incredible. Yeah, or just get out on a hike. Just a quick Yeah, that'd be awesome. We can hike within minutes drive from downtown, we can hike. So nice, man. Well, I appreciate it. I do find made a friend as well. Thank you so much. And I look forward to our future conversation. And I wish you and your family. Lots of health and happiness. Great same to Utah. Thanks so much for having me. I really appreciate it. Thank you, Joe. Awesome. We'll talk to you later. Thank you so much. Native yoga Todd cast is produced by myself. The theme music is dreamed up by Bryce Allen. If you liked this show, let me know if there's room for improvement. I want to hear that too. We are curious to know what you think and what you want more of what I can improve. And if you have ideas for future guests or topics, please send us your thoughts to info at Native yoga center. You can find us at Native yoga center.com. 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