Jessica Vellela ~ How Ayurveda Can Transform Your Health

Renowned Ayurveda expert Jessica Vellela joins Todd to explore the transformative power of Ayurveda in modern lifestyles. Jessica shares deep insights into preventive medicine, personalized treatments, and the profound impact of Panchakarma. She recounts her rigorous training and practice in India and the challenges of bringing Ayurveda to the U.S.. This episode delves into the rich heritage of Ayurveda and its practical applications for maintaining optimal health and vitality. Don't miss Jessica's inspiring journey and valuable expertise in holistic wellness.

Visit Jessica on her website: https://www.findradiance.com/

Key Takeaways:

• Preventive Focus: Ayurveda prioritizes maintaining health to prevent disease, using personalized dietary and lifestyle guidelines.
• Panchakarma: Detailed breakdown of the Panchakarma treatments and their profound impacts on health and wellness.
• Cultural Integration: Insights into the adaptation of Ayurveda outside of India and the challenges faced in different geographical and cultural contexts.
• Self-Care Practices: Emphasis on the importance of self-discipline and consistent practice in achieving health benefits through Ayurveda.

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Chapters

• 0:04 The Benefits and Challenges of Implementing Ayurveda in Modern Life
• 11:01 Becoming an Ayurvedic Physician in India
• 21:41 The Transformative Power of Panchakarma in Ayurveda
• 36:08 Ayurvedic Approaches to Orthopedic Issues Using Oil and Heat
• 49:33 Traditional Detoxification Techniques and Their Surprising Methods
• 52:06 The Intersection of Yoga and Ayurveda in Achieving Life's Purpose

Transcript

0:33

Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast. So happy you are here. My goal with this channel is to bring inspirational speakers to the mic in the field of yoga, massage bodywork and beyond. Follow us @nativeyoga and check us out at nativeyogacenter.com All right, let's begin Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast. Are you curious what Ayurveda is and how it works? Are you wondering if Ayurveda is something that you should give a try? Maybe you have the question, "Why do I even want to try Ayurveda? I think the answer I discovered from speaking with my next guest, Jessica Vellela is there's the ability to feel really good and Ayurveda can facilitate this and help this to happen. You gotta check out Jessica Vellela on her website, findradiance.com. She is the first American born woman to become an Ayyrvedic Physician. She studied in India and she practiced independently in India. She now resides here in the United States. And she works with clients all over the world via the online platform. Again, definitely check out her Jessica at https://www.findradiance.com/ I learned so much during this conversation in relation to some of the treatments that are utilized in Ayurveda such as Panchakarma. She is very honest and real about what some of the protocols are involved in preparing for these treatments. And she does a great job of listing some of the details of these treatments in a way that I have not come across yet. I learned so much. And thank you, Jessica, this has been incredible conversation. Thank you for you listener being here now and paying attention and your support means everything to us. Thanks so much. Let's begin. Today I have the pleasure and privilege of having Jessica Vallela here with me on the podcast. Jessica, what an opportunity! You're a professional in the field of Ayurveda. Why do or how can we benefit from implementing Ayurveda into our lifestyle? Thank you, first of all for having me here. It's a pleasure to be able to talk with you today and share some of this amazing wisdom from Ayurveda, I think it's going to be hugely beneficial for every individual out there. Right? If anybody out in the audience today can say, oh, no, I'm good on health. I don't need any help. I got it all covered. Right? If you're if you're in that boat, no problem, you said. But for most of us, there's always something there's always a question. And it may be as simple as is this the right type of food to eat in this season? Is this the type of food that's going to help benefit my body long term, short term and long term? Right. And then as we age feeling like things starting to set in, like an old house, settling into place creaks and cracks and things going on. And a lot of people have tools to work with that stuff like yoga, meditation and things of that sort. Iran is another tool. And so I think it is super beneficial for everybody to get exposed to it and to be able to gain that information knowledge on self awareness. Amazing. Do you feel like folks and people that you work with are coming to you with illness? How often do you have people coming to you that are healthy? And interested in our VEDA? Yeah, so there's probably about maybe I'd say like a 7030 split on that. Most people that come are having some sort of acute health issue, and it may be flaring in an acute way, and has been a chronic issue leading up to the point that the rent now maybe last several years, possibly even several decades. And then there are a select few number of very young, very smart individuals out there who say, Hey, I got something good going on. Let me hold on to that. What can I do to really make sure that I keep this heading in the right direction. Right now that's probably only about 30% Maybe a little less. Do you feel like there's a shift toward on preventative medicine, do you feel like we are moving a little bit more in that direction of seeking good healthy habits before we actually do feel like we need them? I think so. And I think even with folks that have had to go through the struggle of some sort of disease, whether it be chronic disease or acute disease, they appreciate it even more. So even if somebody does come with fibromyalgia for 20 or 30 years, or with thyroid issues for 20 or 30 years, that the front of their list is actually how do I maintain my health? And how do I improve it? And then they'll look back and say, Okay, I've also been dealing with this thing for a long time. You can do something about that. And most people don't even think that there is such a system of medicine out there that can look at you and say, okay, you've been dealing with this chronic disease burden for 20 plus years. But guess what, maybe there is something that can be done to improve it. Great point, you know, I don't want to assume that the listeners know what AI or Veda is, can you help illuminate on the subject? Absolutely. So I mean, it is a full fledged system of medicine in India and is recognized as a licensed health care system. It stands as one of six actually. And so they allow multiple systems of medicine to coexist relatively peacefully. India is a very different place in Indian society and culture has been going on for 1000s of years. Right. And so for humans to have existed for as long as we have, we must have had some type of health care system, otherwise, we probably wouldn't even be here today. So I think most people can agree. You know, medicine has always been there in some form or another. Trying to look back now and understand what that was like two or 3000 years ago, it's very difficult, especially if we stay only within the range of the Western paradigm. But once we expand that to global, traditional systems, of which Iran, there's only one, we start to see a much more prolific and well developed systematic way of managing healthcare over time. So back in the day, I read was really developed to mostly try to help prevent people from getting sick in the first place. trends that was in everybody's best interest, less use of resources, less downtime in society, and family and community structures, right, and better health, and better vitality overall. It did also develop to be able to handle diseases. And so I read it as a medical system is very well established. There are literally hundreds of diseases and sub classifications described in classical literature here. And with those we have treatment protocols. They if a person presents with whatever their disease may be, if it is in a certain season, and they're at a certain age, and they have a certain background in terms of what their cultural habits are dietary habits, lifestyle habits, we may treat them a certain way using certain medicines. If that presentation comes in differently, we then customize it a different way to be able to meet their needs more effectively. So really, I think I Aveda was the original system of personalized medicine. And it developed that way over time through really astute observation of practitioners and experts. traditional ways of practice, especially in South India, included Ayurvedic doctors, passing their knowledge and practice down through the family lineage. So you'd have a you know, a chain of Ayurvedic doctors going back generations, 510 15 generations now, some of that has been cut short, because of all of the political instability that's happened in India over the last 1000 years. We still can't find some families where they go back up to maybe 10 generations in their practice, that guess what, not only are they passing that knowledge on cumulate, cumulatively, they're working with a lot of the same families, generation after generation after generation. So they're watching. These are dietary and lifestyle habits that these people have been doing over their entire life. And oh, by the way, we knew their grandparents too. And we knew that when their grandparents did that, this is what the outcome was. That's fascinating. A huge amount of knowledge. Sitting on tap, and I Aveda. Now, can we simply pick that up and say, Okay, let's take that and just pick it up and put it anywhere in the world today? Unfortunately, no. And that's largely because I evade it is localized to a geographical region, meaning the weather plays A huge impact, the change in seasons determines the way in which the body's physiology is going to progress through the year. And the way in which the body's physiology is gonna have a tendency towards aging. So we actually have to recreate that knowledge now. And this is part of why it's been such a challenge to get IAT up and running outside of India, because we're literally 200 years behind right now. And where we are oriented and grounded into our practice being localized, being with the same families, same ethnic backgrounds, same diet and lifestyle habits, same cultural habits. Right, so the American culture as it is, right now, there's a lot of question marks. When somebody comes in, and they want to work with an ayurvedic doctor, we have to really go through their whole entire history, we have to leave no stone unturned, ask every single question. And so that can be very time consuming. But the benefit is that for people in the US who have had sort of absent health care, for decades now, by just only getting worse and worse, here, we have something available that can really help you look back and take stock of what your life includes, and what is healthy for you and what is not, and learn how to trend towards that healthy direction. Wow. That's fascinating. It's so interesting to think about a multigenerational like database that was shared orally, I'm guessing or do is there were people writing or recording this sort of information so that it could be passed down from doctor to doctor to doctor or teacher to student in that respect. So there are different manuscripts that have survived and two of the oldest ones are sitting right here, actually, the yellow one Charak Samhita. I want to ask you about Yeah, yeah. So yeah, the blue one, this issue for somebody that so cherica is our father of Internal Medicine. Good ol shirt that is our father of surgery. And he is considered today as the father of surgery worldwide. This is the oldest text known today to have survived to the surgical instructions in it. Wow. So he was or he's given the accreditation of being the first person to actually perform surgery that we know of. That's what it seems like from the literature. They have documented rhinoplasty ear reconstruction surgeries. They have also sort of documented a labor and delivery concerns, how to save the mother's life cesarean section, and his strength Ironically, it was actually stitching soldiers up on the battlefield. And so a lot of the surgery that was developed was it had that as its testing ground. That's interesting. Yeah. Fixing people after they've been injured in in battle. Yeah. Wow. And Jessica, you you've, you're the first American born woman to become an Ayurvedic physician and practice independently in India, you went to India and studied for was it eight or 10 years how how long of a study did you have to do to become the physician that you are? So I did the Bachelor of Ayurvedic medicine and surgery training, that is a classed as a first professional degree in India and India's educational system actually follows the British educational system. So the even though it's a tagged as a bachelor degree, it's actually the equivalent of an MD. So it's a five and a half year program. And four and a half of those years are didactic study, full time study, on when they say full time, they're not joking, man, it's six days a week, eight hours a day. Wow, for four and a half years. Wow. Right. On top of that, there's a one year internship to round off that last year and that fifth year, to get to five and a half, and that's literally 365 days on rotation in the hospital. And we rotate through various departments. And so there's no it sounds like you had no brakes. So you moved, you went from America to India, to study our Veda and then just full bore, it doesn't even sound like you had time to maybe come back and visit back home. I mean, if you're on a six day schedule, and then during that 365 day rotation for a whole year on your fifth year was what was that like? It was rough. Getting used to that granted, I mean, I went over there and I was 10 years older than everybody else in the class and the girls were, were shocked. And the boys were even more shocked. But they were scared to talk to me. And he is very, yeah, women are very feminine. And men are very masculine. And we're still this sort of preservation of the gender roles in that way. So I was hanging out with all the girls, and you're hobbled, you're not first question. You're not married? Oh, my God, what are we gonna do? We're not only we're not seven years old. I wasn't that old, I thought. And I had been working in it before I went. And so I sort of like developmental careers, Data Architect doing database, programming that stuff. You make good money doing that stuff. So I had saved up all my money to be able to go and do this. So I could carry, you know, carry myself for five and a half years paid tuition and live. Wow, I owe money while I was there. That's incredible that I was, yeah, no, I mean, I was of the mindset like, hey, it's so affordable to live here and stay here. I'm not gonna go spend all that money to go back, either. And it's your question about breaks. The interesting thing about India, as you probably know, is it's super vibrant, super colorful. Everybody loves to find any reason to celebrate anything. Yes. And so yes, there were tons of hands of breaks, but they're all you know, let's get up on stage and sing and dance. And I was like, no, no, I'm not here for your amusement guys. Oh, my gosh, all kinds of things. Yeah, sports games going on and fun stuff. And it was good for, for the kids. And well, that's cool. I'm curious. So when it's where, you know, the fact that you practice independently in India? What does that actually mean? That's a great question. So in my final year, I was happy to be done with this. Meaning I felt really satisfied that I had actually come here with a goal. And I was like, on the precipice of achieving and it was right before final exams of final year. And I studied to no and first year was very difficult. I have, you know, it was really a question of like, am I going to be able to stick this out or not. But once I miraculously pass exams, first year, I got in second year, and it was like, Okay, I know what to do now. And so I started really getting good at this. And by finally I graduated first place in my class. Wow. So before I took the final year exams, I said, you know, I'm going to take a little break, I'm going to go up to this nice little beach resort, about 50 kilometers north of my school, had to spend the weekend there and just kind of chill on the beach for a bit, met the most wonderful family running this quiet, beautiful little beach resort in coastal Karnataka, which is just north of Kerala, and south of Goa. And they had been running that beach resort for about 22 years, they had, I think, like, I don't know, 10, or 15 cottages with various numbers of beds in it, oval kitchen setup, the whole staff setup. And there was family run, and the dad was really into yoga. And so I said, this is the main he had a beautiful yoga hall there and everything. And, you know, women, I've talked about this a lot. But I also I love yoga, I was fortunate to get introduced to yoga in 1999, from my yoga teacher, Victor Oppenheimer, and Cambridge mass and his anger style. But so I was really into this with this family. And we've gotten along so well. Then at one point, you know, I went back and visited again, myself, and we thought, hey, you guys don't have any iron Vita in this resort? Would you consider? Possibly, you know, would you be interested in that? And they said, Yeah, sure. Here, they've already got the place for patients to stay. We're close enough to medical facilities, if we need a backup, I can get all the medicines and everything on site easily. So I said, Alright, let's let's do this. And I invested a small amount of money to build some treatment rooms and build a room for me to stay. So stayed there for about two years on and off, and was able to get patients to come from all over the world. And now the other double triple benefit was I could speak to the patients in English. Yes, yeah. Because you know, in a regular hospitals, maybe 10 or 20% of patients spoke English. If that. Yeah. Yes. So most of my training was in Canada. Wow. Did you learn to speak? Did you learn to speak Canada? No, I couldn't. Because we have to write we have to memorize so much Sanskrit already for the course. Yeah. Yeah. Was that my my limit man? If it had been one other language, I think, okay, I could have probably gotten an edge up on the thing, but it was kinda to Hindi, Malayalam company, and that's just in that region. Yeah. And then you get people coming from out sign in Marathi, Gujarati like never ending. Wow. So it was overwhelming with the amount of languages that they have. That's incredible. Jessica and then so you do this for two years, and you decide, I'm ready to come back to United States. And so then yeah, you came back and thought, I'm guessing you are, you're on fire, like excited, like, I did all this training and I'm, I've really done the true work to become an Ayurvedic physician. And what was it like coming back into the states and beginning to practice here? Were you met with open arms? Or was it more of a while I've got a lot of work to do to educate people. A little bit of both. And thank you for understanding and recognizing that because I didn't come back, totally jammed, man. Excited, I was like, over here. And I really went all out. You know, I even stayed I found a beautiful little like three bedroom, two bathroom house west of Charlotte, out in the woods, super peaceful location right out on the lake, all the windows, look out on this beautiful lake, I kind of started punch Congress Center here. People would love to come here. And unlike you know, I was coming off of the whole setup in India where we had the hotel resort already set up beachside, all we had to do is put the treatment rooms in, train some therapists up, get the medicine and boom, before we even turn the lights on the next day, there was a line up the door. So there was no lag in that. But when I started in North Carolina, unfortunately, it was like, crickets. Yeah, yeah, how am I gonna get the people in, you know, I'm trying to be a doctor, I'm not a business person. I'm not very good at going out and advertising and marketing and all that stuff. And I really don't have any desire to do that. Yes, I understand. So that was not in my favor. And then the struggle of actually being able to get something like this up and running here, where you don't have access to the medicines quickly and easily. And most importantly, you don't have access to the skilled labor to do most of this stuff. So it took me a couple years of struggling, and really, you know, holding on to that wanting to do wanting to try wanting to see it through to have to finally say, hey, this isn't gonna work. Yeah, that's a big one isn't more power to you for actually accepting that taken another step forward? Can you explain currently now, how you are interacting with your community, whether it's locally and or through our global community? Absolutely. And so the benefit here, I think the the skill that I did bring to this was having the professional computer background. And so now knowing that there is such a channel, where I can push a button and reach everybody in the world, yeah, if I go in the right direction, right? Yes. And we've been able to put it out there. And if somebody is looking, they have a way to find it. Um, yeah, and that's huge. And so I tried it, hey, look, you know, let's let's cut our losses on this other stuff. But you know, the investment, not only the financial investment, I'm setting up a physical center like that, but the time yeah, yes, the effort, right, you pour your heart into that thing. Tear it all down. It does not very nice. Yeah. With this way, we'll set it off all online. And now all of a sudden, we can reach people, regardless of where they are. Anybody who's ready to say, hey, I want to give this a try. Here it is ready and waiting for you. We have a system online, we have a way to do this. You know, I've been working with people on I really since 2011. Almost, I started trying to call people out of the ethers that way. And even as patients came to me in Indian stayed in the resort in India, they would go home, and I would still continue to work with them, to help them dial in their formulations. And to do maybe treatments at home to kind of keep things on track. Very cool. I'm use the word punch of karma. And from a stronger yoga. I know though, the word punch equals five. The number five is that hold true and punch of karma. So yeah, punch is a Sanskrit word. It's the five karmas. Exactly. So the word karma in Sanskrit can have a lot of interpretations. It's a very generic word. And depending on the context in which we use it, we'll translate it accordingly. So when we talk about karma, in the context of IO Veda and a therapeutic box, we're talking about protocols, about treatments, about specific interventions that we can do to change the course of someone's trajectory of health. Can you explain a little more? If I come to say with a stomach ache? How punch of karma? So I've always heard people say, I went to Costa Rica for a punch of karma retreat, or something of that nature. And I always get the feeling that it means like some sort of cleansing experience. Can you give a little more detail as to what punch of karma entails? Or maybe how it does make sense to me, like if I say have a stomachache, that you would, you definitely would ask me, what kind of foods are you ingesting? And then you would probably steer me in the direction of something that makes sense to you as to, you know, you might point out well, you have Coca Cola is not going to really help your stomach ache. Can you? Can you give a few details about what a punch of karma treatment can look like? Absolutely, yeah. So, sidenote punch of karma is my favorite, favorite favorite, the most part of it because it is hands down the most powerful, we can really make incredible change relatively quickly. And what that means is like looking in timeframes of a month, at a time, in 30 days, a person can have their body back. Wow. And that's a big proposition, especially if somebody has been sick for 30 years. Right to be able to make a big turnaround like that, and 30 days is pretty significant. So the amount of time even though you don't have a person's 15 days in and they're like, when is this going to end? You know, it's a little bit of a struggle in the middle of it. But in the big scheme of things, it's a drop in the whole bucket. Yes. So what puncher karma is, is not necessarily what we see out in mainstream media, or in mainstream, higher beta. A lot of people will talk about like these boosts therapies or I had, you know, oil dripped over my head and laying on a massage table and getting these nice massage treatments and steam and bath and all of that, technically speaking, that's not punch karma. But the phrase punch of karma has become synonymous with those things, because those are preparatory treatments to be able to achieve the outcomes of punch karma. So they're like pre op, treatments. Got it? All right, yeah. Really, you know, we want to get down to splitting hairs on technical details. If we include all of those treatments, all of the oil, massages and steams and all that we're actually looking at the septic karma. And the word septic is another Sanskrit term that means seven. So the core Panchakarma include five main treatments in Sanskrit names, which maybe we should put in the description below Ramana, Virgina two types of busty and rectum Nasya sorry, are the two separate classifications, I'll just stick with that one for now. Ramana is therapy Butik emesis we purposefully induce vomiting in an individual and I usually try to sell this to a person as the most uncomfortable 45 minutes of your life. Yes, right. Yes. Not not the degrade option. And if a person is going to undergo that treatment, it's really best that they only do that in India. It needs to be done under proper supervision, it must be done with immediate backup medical facilities available in in place and met backup mental plan has to be ready for that make sense? The second one is called Virgina. And this is where we induce therapeutic purgation. So what we're doing is we're having the person essentially go to the bathroom, go to the toilet and poop maybe up to 20 times in a day. Maybe an extreme cases 25 to 30. But it's usually going to be somewhere in between 10 and 20 times. And what that does is it allows a very successful very deep flushing of the gastrointestinal tract, specifically the small intestines. We then have two types of Busti. And what that includes is a rather what that is, is therapeutic m&r Sorry I am Anna and I'm one of those is a decoction and Amma where we mix several ingredients together. It's very sharp, it's very strong, and it's very large quantity we're talking about maybe half a liter, up to 800 ML, it's a lot of liquid to inject into a person's rectum into their luxuriant colon. And it goes in and pretty much just comes right back out within a matter of a couple of minutes. The second type of anima is an oil enema and that one is a lower dose might be 50 ml 100 ML, and it's usually going to stay meaning it'll be retained in the rectum and enlarge intestines for some situations, even up to 24 hours. It's very comfortable. It's very easy. You don't even really notice that there. there's anything there, it's just kind of a calm sensation. And then the last fifth one is instilling nasal drops. And this one is called NESEA. So there's very, there's quite a number of variations that we can do with this. And if we do it in a hospital setting, we'll typically do it in a stronger way, meaning we'll make sure we do preparatory base massage for the person, a facial steam, and then we might put up to even 10 drops, or nostril and it creates a very uncomfortable sensation in the head and in the brain to kind of pull out old waist that's trapped up in channels of the head. Wow, I didn't, I know, I just keep hearing that word. I know, I didn't realize all of that. All those different steps. And that's all performed over a 30 day period, and I'm gathering that you're using, you're using all plant based medicines to perform this is that true? Sort of, sort of. So if we classical if we want to perform all five and sequence, which is very rarely done today, that typically takes 120 days, according to classical instruction, they have plus or minus two weeks, let's say 14 days, we're looking at a long period of time to be able to put the body through all five of those properly. Got it. Got it. So typically, what will happen is a personnel just undergo one of those. And that is going to happen within that 30 day window. Oh, I see, with the first two with the therapeutic emesis vomiting, and the therapeutic progression. There's a whole bunch of other stuff that has to be done preoperatively and postoperatively, to make sure that the body goes through this properly, and we succeed in eliminating the waste without causing any disturbance to their actual state of health and their life. You know, some of the side effects, the very bad side effects are depth in some of these situations. And so this has to be done. Carefully. Yes. The pre op and the post op for those two first ones include things like a lot of these treatments that we see. So the oil massage, is the steam. The other types of maybe like herbal rubs or herbal scrubs and pastes, or pouring treatments will report oil over the body, or report decoctions over the body. All of those are preparatory treatments. And instead, today what's happened is in mainstream understanding of how your data that now takes the spotlight, and is thought to be punch of karma, that makes sense. Wow, are you so if I wanted to benefit from your expertise, and I and I consult with you, you would be able to perform one of those or series of those different punch of karma. Protocols. With me being virtual, you'd instruct me and teach me how to do it and give me all the ingredients? Do you mail me ingredients? Do I seek the ingredients out myself? Is it how does that work? Great. So I have had over the last, I'd say upside of doing this about four years ago, maybe even longer? Actually, no, I'm close to 10 years ago, but it really picked up in the last four years during the region at home. And I even have a book on Amazon about this. So this can walk you through help you understand like, Is this even right for me? First of all, because those hardcore two weeks, we're we're really going at it. The person has to maintain self discipline, they have to follow the rules, regardless of whether they understand them or not, or they agree with them or not. But what we're trying to actually do is replicate hospital level hospital grade treatments at home, where the person who's undergoing it is doing it on themselves. And what happens is, as a person goes through this process, it can be exhausting. I bet you get into it. And you're like, Man, I gotta do that again. Yeah, like, it's gone way longer than I thought this is going to be and I didn't expect this to be as challenging as it is. And yeah, so you know anybody for whom that sounds like well, I don't know. Always best. Just do it in a center, do it in a hospital. Let people take care of you. Because that's therapeutic in and of itself. Being in a situation where people are massaging and bringing your food and taking care of you. And it is wonderfully therapeutic for a lot of people. Wow. But for those who do want to venture into Hey, you know what I think I'm not ready to take the trip to India for a month or two months, I would rather stay at home. But I do want to get the benefit out of this. If you have a good level of self discipline, this is definitely within your reach. Just be aware that you're going to need probably realistically speaking, three to 12 months up front of learning, understanding, practicing Ayurvedic routines, daily routines and dietary routines, and even practicing many of these self care treatments on yourself at home first. That's cool. Do you do you notice people making improvement in their health just through that three to 12 preparatory phase because often we think like, it's going to be the treatment itself that's going to hopefully cure me of whatever it is I'm going through. But then it just sounds to me like if you're encouraging me to study for three to 12 months on something, so I really am prepared and ready, I'm going to learn so much that I'm probably going to make some changes to my lifestyle, just period just in this learning process that I would imagine that I that I could have, like some sort of benefit just from that experience. Do you ever have people actually, quote, cure themselves or heal themselves of whatever affliction it is, and then not even go through the punch of karma? Treatment? Because they're like, wait a minute, I've been doing these extra things, I've been taking care of myself a lot better, I'm actually feeling better. Maybe I don't even need to do it. I'm trying to think off the top my head, there must have been somebody, you know where that happened. And they actually yeah, they wanted to do it. And then it was like me and life gets in the way or whatever the case is, I'll skip and I feel good enough. Now I don't really need to do all that. So absolutely. This is beautiful thing about it, regardless of what your goal is. Meaning, regardless of what it takes to get you motivated to want to do this. Because it's all about making that change is all about coming at yourself coming at your life and saying, hey, you know what, I'm ready to look at this. objectively. Yeah, I'm ready to say that I'm gonna stick with something for 30 days. And that can that in and of itself can be super hard for a lot of people. That's why there's so many programs out there. There's so many fads out there, everybody wants to jump on it. Oh, 14 days. 21 days I did it. I got to the end. Guess what, guys? There is no end. Understood? Yes. Yes. So this is this kind of turns the tables on all of that of like, hey, how do we learn how to just be happy with ourselves? The way that we are now? And incrementally? What can we do a little bit day by day to keep moving in the right direction? Nice. You know, I always think of our VEDA treatments. And Sandor whenever my own understanding of our VEDA I always think of like I mentioned earlier, like a stomach ache or if I had, say, a rash on the skin or whatever, there's a, I have a pathology book from massage school. And you know, you flip through and you see how many different diseases there are. And it's like mind boggling. And some of the photos are obviously really tough to look at and you go oh my goodness, like there's that many potential things that can go wrong. But but a lot of times in yoga in terms of orthopedics, like I have an injured knee, or I have back pain, or I have maybe like a torn rotator cuff is how does our VEDA approach the orthopedic challenges. This is another area where I really shines. One of the doctors that I was fortunate enough to study under an Indian, US Master, I have a surgeon. And we will get orthopedic cases in and out all day long. There are a wide range of treatments that we can do in the treatment room because again, we have all these resources at our disposal, we have all the medicines, we have the train staff, we have the facilities and the massage table cooking equipment, everything we need to actually do these things. But the premise comes down to a simple thing that most people can do themselves at home. And that is using oil in the right way to help lubricate and stabilize and nourish the tissue in that area locally. Plus heat, oil and heat oil and oil. And that's where we now get down into the nitty gritty, well what kind of oil do we have hundreds of medicated oils to choose from in the formularies but even before that, you could just try a simple try castor oil. Castor Oil is phenomenal for helping to rebuild musculoskeletal issues plain castor oil. We do have a medicated version of castor oil as well that has milk in about a dozen other herbs in it. That can be really beneficial and just apply oil to that area locally. Ideally the oils can be warmed a little bit. So even if you just put it in your hands and rub it up so it's not cold straight out of the bottle. But warm body temperatures applied over that area, rub it in 510 15 minutes, however long you can take a hot compress, like a hot towel that dipped in hot water, wring it out, lay it over the area, bandage it down. Try to hold the heat on there for five minutes, 10 minutes till it cools off, take it off and change it. Well, yeah, that sounds good. That my back's a little sore right now that I'm thinking that would be. But the oil is really wonderful. Incredible is do? Are you yourself doing treatments with yourself or on yourself regularly? I'm guessing or do you feel like you're in pretty good health? Currently? I am, um, I you know, I, I went to India when I was 27. And when I got there, I was just like any other regular American. I mean, it wasn't overweight, necessarily. But I had a lot of things brewing. And I had had eczema since I was very, very young. Since as early as I could remember, I had skin problems. So when as soon as I got to India, within the first three months, I was sicker than I had ever been in my entire life with x tau or like a stomach sick or just all closely with it, everything the pollution in the air. The spiciness green chilies, breakfast, lunch and dinner. Right. Yes, the diet change alone when you get to India, just like oh, where's it just the good old fashioned breakfast? Like, what do you mean? Yeah, yes, I wasn't just a regular school. I mean, I was one of only two foreigners at the entire school. So it's not like this place was interested in catering to any extra needs of anybody. So I was expected to just get in line with everybody else. And they're doing it. You can do it too. Yeah. Unfortunately, yeah. My system was not cut out for that. And so I was, you know, I had explosive rashes. I had terrible acne for about three years. Wow. After getting there, yeah. And you know, 2728 years old. That's the last thing you think you're gonna have to deal with? Yeah, yeah. Yes. But it was horrendous. I mean, it hurt to smile. At different times. It was so bad. We're so yeah. Were they were they helping you though? Are they were they offering you treatments for that? Yeah, exactly. That's what happened was, everybody was like, Okay, you need to do Rach Nah. I was like, I'll do anything police. Desperate at that point. So I said, Alright, fine. Sign me up. Let's do it. And everybody had their own opinion. Oh, don't worry, you can do this. And you can still go sit in class all day long. You could do this at home, you can come to the hospital one day, I come down there on my little scooter. Unable to even concentrate on one point in the road. It was very difficult. Part of the reason I think why I like helping people get into this now is so that they can do it smoothly. And they can have a good experience out of it. Because the My first one was a it was a circus. Wow. And it was very, very difficult. And it didn't really work. It didn't help. I always felt like it you know that the doctor who was with me on that first one, he was going to do whatever he was going to do. Regardless of this. I was patient sitting in that chair and not he had an idea in his mind. And that's what it was going to be. And you know, maybe that works fine with Indian folks, or in his experience that seemed to be like what it was, you know what was going to work, but unfortunately, it didn't really help. So I ended up having to do the whole thing over again. Can second time didn't quite work. I had to fix it with an impromptu anima. Try it again a third time. Finally, when I clicked into like a third, fourth, fifth times it started to work. Wow. I have done this thing now. 11 times. Wow. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. So this is what you coach your clients or patients on is that we're going to start and even if it doesn't necessarily work right away. We're going to keep trying. And we're going to keep trying and try different things until we until we start to see some benefits. What Yeah, and I don't push everybody to do this. And you know, it's not for everybody. Not everybody needs to do it. And not everybody wants to do it. Not everybody has that says that. Although I do say everybody should try it once. Yeah, because you don't understand the other position that you could be in the other side of clean. But you don't even know what that is until you get a taste of it at least one time. So curious now. Yeah, I have yet to find one person So who has done this? And said, No, I don't want to do it again. And that's, that's it. Everybody says, I'm going to do this again, at some point, the issue is making the time and finding the space for it. Yeah. Do we have hospitals here in the states that are as dedicated as the ones in South India for these long term 30 to 60 day treatments? Unfortunately, not. And the biggest driver of that, or the rather, the biggest obstacle for that is probably cost. Because for somebody to be able to afford staying as an inpatient for 30 days in the facility here in the US, it's going to get out rageous. Yes. Instead, what often happens is these groups will say, Okay, we're going to take people and go to Mexico and do this, or we're going to go to someplace where also we don't have as much legal liability to worry about, because none of us I rarely doctors are recognized in the US system. And I'd actually prefer that because now we don't have to fall under insufficient regulations, either. Great planning many people who are trying to propose that IV to be regulated, they're not really pushing for the gold standard in the first place. So why should we then let ourselves get dragged down to that level, just leave it alone, leave it the way it is. And we can do what we've been trained to do in India. So if people really want to do it at home, that's the best way because they can be by themselves, they can have the time and space, they can feel comfortable in their own home. And it doesn't become this huge financial burden. Otherwise, it's looking at going abroad somewhere, and possibly doing it with a group, you know, in Mexico, Central America, something like that. But the main issues, there are number one not having access to enough medicines on demand. And if something comes up, and we need that, and it's two weeks out before it shows up, we have no use. So really going to India to do proper punch karma is kind of the only option out there in the world today. I would say the only other second option would be Germany. They have done a phenomenal job. Integrating Aveda into their health care system. It's unbelievable, actually, wow. Right? They've upgraded massage tables, they're innovating. They're doing all this fantastic stuff. And they really want to retain the quality of Ayurvedic medical care. Cost again, there is going to be a question. But at least you know, some Western countries really trying to shoot for the higher standard on this. That's incredible. Yes, it seems is there scientific research and or studies going on to create literature that proves our VEDA does indeed work. Here is an again, a lot of that is coming out of Germany got it. Very cool. All right. Yeah, they're ahead of us by at least 10 to 15 years. Wow. Amazing. What is an example of a client that you've worked with recently where you have seen phenomenal results. So several come to mind. One young lady, I had her as my student, and I guess we probably did her punch card, I think two years 18 months ago, at this point, almost coming up on two years, she had been dealing with digestive issues for most of her life, especially acutely. So in the last five years, that she's young in her mid to late 30s. She wanted to go to nursing school, she had done my IV program, she had done programs and other schools as well. And unfortunately, none of the Ayurvedic doctors dialed in to get her on the right IV formulations and medicines. And so her condition kept worsening over time. So finally, we decided, okay, we need to, you know, let's do punch karma, let's do her agent at home. She had everything going in her favor, she didn't have a full time job, she was able to take as much time as needed. Her husband, happened to be a wonderful Indian man as well. And so he was on board with everything, and super supportive. So he was able to do many of these hands on treatments on her at home, so she could rest while getting the treatments done. Meaning like the preparatory treatments that I had talked about, before we actually get into the process. That surprisingly went on for I think 17 days. Prep treatments usually live in the realm of three, four or five days. And here's one on for 17. And so this is what I mean by like, it's super hard to plan. We have no idea how long this is going to take. It's up to the buyer. We're waiting for the body to show us signs that it has completed a certain step in the process and it's ready to go on. And that's kind of what we're trained to look for is here's the intervention we do. Here's the outcome we're looking for. Have we hit it yet? No. Keep going. Okay, Gotta keep going. Okay, we've got it next. And then we move through the rest of the process. She came out on the other end, she had a fantastic experience, meaning it was extremely difficult. But she got cleaned out fantastically well. So much so that I think within two months, she was able to start her nursing program. Wow. And basically just go on with her life. Wow. Is the remind me the Sanskrit term for the was it V Ronja. That's the one where you're, we throw up. So it's very Jenna. Rich, Anna. Thank you. Thank you. Do you have the therapeutic permissions? So you're saying for like, 17 days, she was having? We were doing the prep treatments for? Okay, sorry. Thank you. I misunderstood that. I was thinking, wow, that's intense. So that just helped me again, now the prep treatments, meaning what was so difficult about the prep treatments? Right. So typically, again, this is where things get super confusing, right? Because we see all these beautiful images out mainstream consumerism, the oil massages and the oil dripping in the flowers. And now doesn't look so beautiful, right? That's not what it is. Treatments are usually going to be drying treatments. So we actually do various types of treatments that induce sweating, to dry out waste, which is blocking certain metabolic pathways in the body, once we hit that marker of success and drying, we go on to stage two. And then we start actually lubricating the person's body by having them drink increasing quantities of ghee. First thing in the morning on empty stomach. Got it? Got it. And these can get up pretty high. I mean, the highest I've seen somebody go was close to you 353 8400 ml of D. And that's different that I've never tried that. It's difficult to to get it down. I'm guessing. Yeah, it's difficult to get it down and to keep it down. I mean, imagine you were to take your job at that sitting next to your stove and just melt that whole thing. How much of that? Do you think you can drink all at once? It Oh, yeah. Good point. Okay, gotcha. That's the feeling. All right. Now are talking. And in terms of like the heat to dry, can you explain to me this dynamic, because I'm thinking of heat is going to make me sweat. Therefore, there's moisture. So the idea is to almost like dehydrate the body so to speak. That's a very good way to say it, actually. Yes. And even though we're causing the body to sweat, we're actually moving that fluid from inside to out. And we're opening that those channels of sweat, so that the body can now have this kind of outflow happening over the entire body. Wow, that's fascinating. When when my wife and I were in India, practicing Ashtanga, there was a practice where, at one point, I guess Tommy Joyce was telling students after practice, you use you, sweated profusely, to rub the sweat back into your body. What is that all about? That's a good question. So some of these yogic practices may be related to Ayurvedic practices. But I think the context is very different. And so with the yogic practice, right, you're looking at a person who is ideally, following a certain type of lifestyle, maintaining a certain sleep schedule, following a certain type of dietary habit or restrictive kind of dietary form, and prioritizing the practice of Asana, and other practices of yoga, to kind of upgrade their physical body in a sense, upgrade their physical bodies strength, flexibility, defenses, viability, right. physical skills, in that sense, and also, of course, mental upgrade, yes. Because we have to have that ability to focus the mind to maintain our physical form in such a way. And so the purpose for some of these yogic practices, I think, is more to support that goal. And yoga, where is the purpose of many of the Ayurvedic practices is like we're trying to achieve a therapeutic outcome and the two are not always in need. Same thing interesting. We always hear about Yoga and Ayurveda being sister sciences. What is the history of the evolution of these two? I mean, obviously, we can separate them and say yes I are Vedas i are Veena in yoga is a huge umbrella term for a whole host of different practices. Were they developed side by side alongside each other? was one given credit as being the first and the other born out of the other. What is your understanding of the this history? That's a great question. And I suppose they must have developed side by side to some extent, to the extent that what that looked like as it was going, nobody really knows unless we go back to the literature and we try to like, chronologically piece together which literary piece came before the other? That makes sense. And that's that's kind of a you know, in a minute isn't the most useful way to try to think about it. Because it may not always be true. Yeah. Right. Do we think a book is written at a certain time by a certain author, we could be wrong. And that has shown itself time and time again, going into historical studies when I read it at least. So in the Ayurvedic textbooks and Machado, Samyutta, actually, there's one chapter that mentions yoga out of 120 chapters in that entire text. So just, you know, kind of put it in context reference point. Yes, they are linked, but they're very much their own independently operating systems, understood the way I was trained in India. What most teachers said was that I Aveda was a gift from the gods. It was given to mankind as a tool for sustaining health. And to be able to achieve one's life purpose, not just their life purpose, but to be able to run their whole life out in a healthy way. Meaning, when we crack that book open, one of the first things it says is that health is the foundation for dharma, artha, kama, and Moksha Dharma being our purpose in life, right? What is our why are we here? Am I here to be an ayurvedic doctor? Are you here to teach people to, you know, get healthy with yoga? What is our purpose is that it? Well, once we find it and figure it out, we're going to study for it, we're going to make effort to try to be able to achieve that purpose. And that's our dharma. That's our calling. That's our path. Karma. Just like punch of karma, right? Here we go another meaning for the same word. Karma is all about enacting that purpose. That makes sense and knowing, right, we know what we're supposed to do. Now we now it's time to put our heads down and actually do it. And this could go on for a long time. At some point, karma hopefully shows up and gives us a little bit of reprieve. Karma is the enjoyment is literally the fruits of our labor. Right. And the order of these is so important, because it's put in this exact order, study what you're supposed to do, do what you're supposed to do, and then enjoy it. And once you get that sequence down, Moksha comes in, and Moksha is translated in many different ways. I'm sure as you're familiar with, in this context, it's helpful to just see it simply as detachment with been in this bondage of being called for a certain purpose, driving that purpose home doing it, and enjoying the results of our work. And now it's time to say, goodbye. That's really cool. Yeah, that's an incredible breakdown of sequence of steps that we go through in life. Incredible. It's amazing. Jessica, there's, there's such a wealth of knowledge that you've accumulated over the years. I really enjoy hearing about all of this. Can you please tell me like are and all of us listening? How can we how can we find you? Sure. So the best way to find me now is on my new website, that's find radiants.com. And that's where I am working with folks online. In many different forms. The most common form now is group cohorts. We take people in at certain times of the year, we get everybody started into this whole process, and help work things out over the course of usually a couple months and longer. Of course, anybody needs that can lead to punch karma, that can lead to deeper Ayurvedic training for those who want to go that route as well. So it's really just about getting getting this knowledge out there. Let's get this in your hands where you can use it, and you can get benefit from it. Incredible. Can you tell me about the books that you've published? Sure. So after I determine that the punch of karma wasn't going to work here. In the US, I decided the next best thing to do would be to let me train some folks. Let me try to help bring up the state of AI or VEDA in the US. And so around that I started writing six volumes for professional study. Three of those are now on Amazon. They're still very imperfect, but they are there. And three more are in the process of making their way onto Amazon, hopefully in the next year or two. Wow, there are three other books for Sanskrit and that one other book for Regina. Wow. So you, you've got a lot of well, that sounds like the the second of the four that you said what was it was? It was dharma. And then then karma then artha. No, no. Yeah, so are the Thank you. Sorry, did I tell you the wrong thing? Dharma Artha Kama Artesia. Yeah, I think I told you the wrong thing before. Okay. It's okay. We got the idea. I'm you're still It does require so much work to kind of put that sort of literature together. That's incredible. And you have this sort of computer tech background behind you. Various studious so many years of study and work, what a what a pleasure to meet you. This is incredible, Jessica. And so you're training people also to become our Vedic physician, so to speak? Have you? Have you been able to take somebody through this from ground zero to the point where you say, I believe you you have the skill I have? Let's, let's get you working with people. Have you gotten to that point yet? Unfortunately, I can't do that myself. It takes a whole team of doctors, right, imagine getting trained by only one person, the limited knowledge and the limited purview that one would have with that, you know, I only got as good as I am. Because I had access to amazing teachers in India. Yes, and that's where the real gold is, from those folks there. I'm nothing compared to them. I mean, there's someone who was the brilliant people I've ever encountered in my entire life. I will say one of my students, made the smart move of actually deciding to go to India and pursue the same degree, the bachelor vibrating medicine surgery degree. Now there, wow, hopefully, we'll graduate in a few more years. So that's what it takes. If somebody wants to really become an ayurvedic doctor, we really need to try to uphold the quality of the education and the profession, and encourage people to go and do it in India. That's amazing. So he came to you, and then just got so inspired and motivated. And I want to learn, I want to learn and you said, if you really want to go there, you gotta go do what I did. And he's doing it. That's right. Wow. And he was lucky enough to get a full scholarship. Wow. And he's from the States as well. Born and raised. American. Yeah. How cool. Yeah, hopefully, so feel good. To you know, get someone that motivated to really go the distance like that. And it's one thing to sign up for a 200 hour training, where you're going to be doing a couple of weekends with a few people, you know what I mean, to actually devote your life to go into India and studying and practicing? Has he gone to this? He's going to the same exact school that you went to so he's coming? No, yeah, you got into a different school. The school that I went to was, it was a little odd that I ended up there in the first place. I found out about the school in 2006 I saw a picture of a beautiful done one three statue that they have in their hospital and something just clicked inside it said that's the place that's where I'm going against everyone else's vise. I don't care what you tell me about I'm going there. I just had a vision I'm going but then you know, but you're coaching nothing against that school but your coach you coached him your friend this student let's find this other school or I heard I heard about this other school and that's working out well for him. Exactly what he's actually going to the school that the foreigners usually go to, I did the oddball things you did. So he's doing the right thing and they've changed their whole process and everything anyways in the meantime, so I don't think he could have even gotten into the school that I went to at this point because they sort of close things down. Wow, I'm trying to keep all the foreigners in one place to make it easier for them at the full authentic experience. I'm just trying to I had the great visual the view on a little motorbike going through these treatments barely able to see straight and like I'm just gonna finish. I'm not given up. I've made it this far. I can't give up. But just imagine imagine that little scooter monsoon I had my whole outfit on a bright yellow boots and everything and just my little scooter and torrential downpours going through, I can inches of water to get to the hospital. I can't imagine just because my wife and I decided to go to go during monsoon season to go study with an Ashtanga practitioner. And I looked at the rainfall amounts in Florida and I saw it so they call there's like 60 inches of rain per year and I looked over at the monsoon rainfalls and going is like oh, there's like 60 inches of rain in like three months. And I thought you know, rains rain and we have hurricanes here. It's no big deal. Let's go and we got to go out and it was monsoon I just now I understand what that means. And all of the guns had boarded up their shops the way Florida looks when hurricane comes like everyone's out of here. And they're like, why are you here? Everyone goes into Russia cash. Why would you be in Goa right now. And it's like, I didn't know I just didn't think rain would be that big a deal. But it rained every day all day, like just so heavy. So um, I did not ride a motorbike, I hired a taxi to get the rocks, I'm like, There's no way I'm gonna try to motorbike my family. So that's a great visual, I love your determination, your grit. I love that you've put so much time into your profession. And, and you're still just pushing ahead. It's really admirable Jessica. And this is a true honor to get to meet and speak with you. And I'm just so thankful for taking time out of your day. And I hope to have further conversation with you and hope somebody's motivated to, to study and practice with you. And if they have any sort of health concerns that maybe they can reach out to you and feel better to actually just feel good. Because it is it is amazing to feel good, right? It's it really is. And no matter what anybody tells you, it's there, and it's waiting for you. And that's what I think is the spark that can get everybody motivated. Say, Hey, let me just try this. And that's the thing that everybody needs to know. Keep getting up every day. And trying to make it sunny out even when it's cloudy. What can we do to keep ourselves in the right frame of mind? There's a lot. Yes. Wow, Jessica. This is this is great. Thank you so much. Thank you, Todd. This is really fantastic. You're a wonderful human being for putting all this stuff out there for people. It means a lot to me. Love. Yes. Oh, man. Well, having guests like you is why I'm doing it. So I will be in touch and I can't wait to see your your practice. Grow. This is gonna be amazing. Thank you. Yeah, we'll do this again sometime. All right. Perfect. Thank you, Jessica. Thank you. Native yoga Todd cast is produced by myself. The theme music is dreamed up by Bryce Allen. If you liked this show, let me know if there's room for improvement. I want to hear that too. We are curious to know what you think and what you want more of what I can improve. And if you have ideas for future guests or topics, please send us your thoughts to info at Native yoga center. You can find us at Native yoga center.com. And hey, if you did like this episode, share it with your friends, rate it and review and join us next time